Please note: Good Influence is produced for audio and designed to be heard. If you are able to, please listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page. Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human proofing, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. You can find links to audio versions of all episodes here.

intro

[music]

Gemma Styles: Hello, I'm Gemma and welcome to another episode of Good Influence. This is the podcast where each week you and I meet a guest who will help us pay attention to something we should know about as well as answer some of your questions. This week we're talking about comparison: how different people react to comparison, when comparing ourselves becomes a problem and little ways to start retraining our brains. So, joining me this week is Lucy Sheridan. Lucy is the world's first and only comparison coach and has been described as the queen of self worth. She teaches workshops as well as offering private coaching on comparison and often shares nuggets of insight on her Instagram account too. She's also written a book on the subject, called The Comparison Cure: How to be Less Them and More You.

[music continues under conversation]

Gemma Styles: I'm a full on like, three jumpers, blanket over the lap like, Nana, sat there working in the day.

Lucy Sheridan: Oh total Nana. Yeah. Well, in- I'm from Leeds we have this expression nesh do you have that? Nesh means like, you're prone to feeling the cold like Oh, I’m a bit nesh.

Gemma Styles: I have heard that.

Lucy Sheridan: Yeah. And I am properly nesh. But yeah so blanket on the lap it is! [both laugh]

[music ends]

discussion

Gemma Styles: Have you always been a comparison free zone?

Lucy Sheridan: [laughs] Heck, no, no, I have always compared myself to other people. Since a very young age, I can vividly remember for example, you know, comparing my colouring in to other toddlers, even, and when my brother was born when I was like five or six thinking well, you know, am I as cute as he is and what’s like, you know, the gift situation, the toy situation going to be from here and that sort of thing. And then it followed me right through my childhood would compare how my body was developing towards against other people. My grades at school then, you know, maybe my plans for after school. And then I was comparing like, whether I had, you know, was in a relationship or not, my body and then into work, comparing if I was this, you know, I'm using air bunnies here, but like, you know, hashtag successful as other people. I ended up- So it’s always, always, always been present. And when I kind of landed in that kind of area of work, anyone that works in the creative industries’ll probably relate to this, like it is very, very intense, and in all sorts of ways, not saving lives or anything, but it is really intense. And I found myself, I found myself developing anxiety, which was partly brought about by my comparing. I went to my school reunion my late 20s, which on the day itself was really good fun, like the barbecue was great. It was fun being in our old classrooms and seeing people like you know, years on genuinely having a really good life. Also, snort laughing like really good, like, catch up times. And then, you know, this was the time when like, facey-b [Facebook] was the pinnacle. We didn't have the old IG [Instagram] back then, you know [laughing] it was that was it like it was kind of making it's making its way up, but we weren't quite there yet. And yes, I was on Facebook, and we were kind of adding each other on Facebook. And then so what happened with me sending all those friend requests and accepting all the ones coming my way too, was the morning after my school reunion, my social media looked very, very different. And I ultimately woke up in this like Las Vegas of comparison. So if you're prone to comparing anyway, you're really good at being able to kind of like rank or judge yourself against someone else or group of people and I suddenly open the door and all these new sources of comparison just rushed in like a wave. And and it's, it's from there that things took a bit of a- well a bit of a darker turn in terms of, comparison just sort of took over my life. I'm not talking like you know a bit of light stalking here of like, you know, your ex best friend or whatever it was, I was checking in on people that were genuinely strangers, like I've seen them for a catch up one Saturday in July at the school reunion. I was checking in on people and finding myself like three years deep in their holiday photos like rese- like looking at looking at where they were working and all and all this just ranking ranking ranking all the time. And against that background of me really struggling in the workplace I was at because of the pressure and a lot of the toxic, um, you know elements that were there to it we kind of became a perfect storm and it got to a real low point and I found myself like on a lovely sunny Saturday afternoon I was laying fully clothed like in my bedroom and my phone like gave up because the scrolling it just got too much. And I kind of joke about this in my book that was like comparison just became too hot to handle like it crashed- it crashed my phone. And it was one of the few times in my life that many many many times have experienced this but I didn't hear, it wasn't like I thought a thought, I could almost hear a voice. Like coming like audibly saying That's enough. And it was almost like the big sister part of me said like, That's enough now, you can't you can't do this anymore. This is getting you nowhere. And it was from there I thought well- if I can think and feel myself in thinking feel myself my way into this, excuse me. If I can think and feel myself, my way into this, can I think and feel my way out of it? And I just almost like set that as a puzzle. And so I started to like, just pay attention to where my focus was going. And then I started to look at like other sources of inspiration and I suppose just like healing, and just understanding myself better, really. So that took me to the self development aisle in Waterstones, like a big bookshop in the UK. And I grabbed a couple of books there. And then I found out about things like Ted Talks. So I started looking at those too. And I started to feel this fog of comparison just start to melt away, as I got clear on what I wanted, what I liked, what felt important to me, what excited me about the future. And then things became, you know, more serious, I suppose. And I find myself kind of getting the 5:30am train on a Saturday where I was living in Leeds down to London to attend like training seminars. And then I got a credit card and like, you know, start started paying for my life coaching training, very much from a place of, the more I'm understanding myself the better I’m feeling about myself. And you know, maybe that I could start a blog about comparison or something like that, because it feels like people want to talk about it, everyone seems to have their own experience of it. Every so often I meet someone that doesn't compare themselves and I want to study them like a rare bird. So if you're that person, come and find me @lucysheridan please, I need to talk to you! But [laughs] it got more serious and my understanding kind of became broader and deeper. And then a couple of things happened at the job I was in, and I decided I was going to leave, I thought, right I'll set up this life coaching practice, I'm going to see if people want to learn what I've learned about comparison they can apply it to their lives and to their present and their future. And I thought I'll give it six months. And I'll also do extra work as well. So I was like, worked in my friend's nail salon. And like you know, did freelance work and all that sort of things. Anyone that self employed knows that sometimes it's not the most the smoothest, most kind of like linear start to proceedings, everyone's got their own anecdotes.

Gemma Styles: Absolutely.

Lucy Sheridan: Everyone does it, that happens to everyone- everyone's bridging to where they want to get to. But hey, that's for another time. And but I thought what I'm gonna do for six months, I'm just gonna, like write about comparison and comparison tips. I'm gonna see if I can start doing talks in schools, which I did. And I'm going to, I'm going to see where this goes it for six months. And I won't say that kind of my feet were swept from under me with the demand. I won't say that. But I could tell that I was onto something. And so six months led to, okay, I'll give it a year. Okay, give it 18 months. And that was kind of you know, from saying, Okay, I'm going to start this for six months. That was now seven years ago. So it was an element of, I'm just going to try, but that was the transitional period where kind of what was kind of like, what felt like a confusing situation like Oh gosh I've got to leave work actually became an opportunity for me to pursue this. And it's taken, you know, it's it's taken a while. And obviously building any business takes time too but to be here like seven years on and still passionate about and still learning about it, still developing the work and still doing more training and helping people like I'm really glad for all the late nights I put in.

Gemma Styles: I'm glad that it’s gone so well…

Lucy Sheridan: [laughing] Thanks, love.

Gemma Styles: But it kind of leads it leads me to the question of- how did you come to find all these people? And how was it so quickly evident that a lot of people were struggling with the same things that you were?

Lucy Sheridan: Yeah, well, I suppose part of it was like, following the clues that were already there. So things like- I noticed, and when, I noticed people saying, like, start conversations with what I saw on Facebook, or well I saw a post on Instagram, and they were starting conversations that, kind of based on what they were seeing on social media, and then comparing themselves what they were seeing on social media. So anecdotally, um, I could feel it happening around. And then when journalists were like, talking to me, and we were writing quite long pieces together, like in national magazines, that also gave me a flavour that more people wanted to kind of learn from what I was developing and like, take on board the tips really, and the advice and the kind of methods that are involved in becoming comparison free. So in terms of kind of how they found me, it's been a bit of a mix, and I had to do a lot of the work obviously say like, you know, just like, you know, go to any market stall [laughing] Do you want to buy this? You know, and like, making it obvious, like do my website, I'm setting up, you know, my Instagram channel and social media and a little bit of blogging in the early days, but not so much now. Um, but really telling people and kind of sharing that it was available and I can do a session or we can do six. And what started to happen is a few people like yeah, okay, I'll give it a try. Because I need I need to not compare myself anymore. That's something that my clients and the people that are in my Instagram community get, they don't want to compare themselves. It isn't working for them anymore. They, you know, it might have been a distraction, they realise it's got a bit, it's a bit more serious now. And they would kind of tell their friends, they would tell their friends. And then, for example, people start saying, well, could you come and do a workshop at my house with my pals on a Saturday morning? I'm like, Yeah, sure. So you know, get on the bus and go, and then I started to say, Well, look, you know, I'm going to do this workshop on comparison. Come and join me it's online. It's 10 quid, and then you know 40 people came, and then 100 people came, and 300 people came. And so it was kind of- a lot of it, and I think this is applies actually to when you're starting any sort of business or wanting to do anything else, you have to take permission to talk about it and be very repetitive, knowing that the first time you say something that you think you're saying something, you'll be telling someone informing them the second time you're reminding them. And I always kind of say to people like, Oh, well, I don't want to bore people and like if they want it, they'll ask and that kind of thing. It's like, yeah, they will to a point. But you know, if I go next door after this, Gemma love, and I put on the TV, and there's like, I don't know, like a toothpaste advert on. I know I need to brush my teeth, but someone's decided to have millions of pounds reminding me to brush my teeth with this certain toothpaste. You know, if they, if they can reinforce that- I've been brushing my teeth, since I had teeth, you know, this is not a new concept. So if they you know that, you know, the things or the brands or the messages can be repetitive and reinforced, it's really important that ours are as well, we can never say it too much. And that was it. Because when I started out, I didn't have any money, I didn't have any connections, I was doing something which was super niche, like coaching, the coaching industry has taken off in ways I could never imagine. It's amazing. There's incredible help available, these days, but seven years ago, when I was kind of, you know, breaking through, people didn't even know what coaching was let alone comparison coaching. So it just goes to show, sometimes you just have to put the work in explaining and not making assumptions. And that's what I made sure I did in the early days. And before kind of like had the book and other things that spoke for themselves. And the ideas of making sure to say like, what it is, what it isn't and how it's available. So a lot of it was down to me, kind of like, right, it's Tuesday, I'm gonna say this online, right? It's Wednesday, I'm going to email this person, there was a lot of that kind of stuff going on.

Gemma Styles: So that kind of self promotion always makes me think- and to be honest, in general, I would say that you do come across as a very confident person, which I think is the kind of thing that you need, or at least are aiming for when you've got to do that kind of self promoting stuff. Would you say, have you always been a confident person or was that something that came as a kind of side effect of you stopping comparing yourself with other people?

Lucy Sheridan: Definitely been a side effect, I would, I would say I've always had a level of confidence, you know, was probably described as like, chatty at school, and that kind of thing, or, you know, would kind of, like put myself forward for things and here and there. But I think that confidence isn't necessarily something that you have consistently and you're born with, I think it's a bit like any, it's like topping up your iPhone battery, plug it in and work at like, powering it up. And the more you'll have. I definitely go through phases of not feeling confident or just feeling like I need a rest. Because, you know, a big part of the business or me doing my job does really does rely on people being able to trust me to be directive in certain ways. But being I definitely, like treat my confidence as like a supply. And if I can feel like it's getting a bit low, I take some time out and I kind of like take a bit of a break and do what makes you feel good. And then my confidence will kind of come up again. But I definitely, I definitely don't see as a consistent thing at all. Like, you know, I think it was it would have been last December now. And I had a bit of I suppose what I’d call, I had a mental health blip. And like wild horses couldn't have dragged me online to talk about my business or talk about anything, actually, I just wanted to just be away and just be with myself. And then so in like the new year when I started to feel myself and I’d come back to myself and was being like, okay, feeling grounded. Again, I didn't kind of you know, turn it on like jazz hands! [exaggerated voice] Hi guys! Back with the comparison coach! Far from it, it was like taking a very gentle, gentle approach to it. But I think confidence isn't something that you're born with, or is just kind of handed out, I've had to work at it. Certainly, what I think is the case it is a bit like a muscle, the more you work at, the stronger it gets. So if I'm nervous or fearful of something, I've got the heebie jeebies or I’m reluctant or I'm not feeling good enough. What I can say is Well, look, kid, you did that last week and that the week before so come on, just have a little bit of courage, have a bit of courage and follow through on what it is you want to do here and just see what happens. So I do a lot of talking to myself, like I'm a child as in like, come on, kid. You're all right, you're all right. And I think we kind of mentioned that like big sister energy, like BSE, I use that a lot with myself to kind of cajole myself along, not um, mercilessly and without breaks. Far from it. But if something's important and and I need to show up for it, let's say, then I'll give myself like a really good pep talk, and then go for it. But it's something I have to work at all the time, all the time.

Gemma Styles: It's quite nice to hear you talk about confidence in that way because I don't know that I would describe myself as a very confident person. And there's definitely been times in my life where I would have described myself as the opposite and someone who's got very low self confidence. And I think got low self esteem to a certain level I suppose, so it's nice to hear you talk about it that way because I think it can be easy to kind of, box yourself in and say, Oh, well, I'm just not a confident person. So think that you'll never be confident.

Lucy Sheridan: Totally. Yeah, and who you're around and your environment is so important as well. Like, I feel very comfortable in your company, Gemma. So I do feel like I can be jokey and, you know, be myself and say what I really think, you know, it's-

Gemma Styles: Well that’s nice to hear!

Lucy Sheridan: It’s a true story! I speak the truth, but there'll be other people where I maybe don't trust them, or I'm picking up a weird vibe, or we're not, we're not, you know, a good match. And maybe I would show a different part of my personality. That was not to say, I'm not confident or I'm wearing a mask in that moment. It's just that I'm gonna alter my state for what is kind of happening in front of me. Um, but I think when we're not feeling confident, we sometimes think, Oh, it's down to me and right, you know, and this is just how it is but actually it can be, well, how can I ask for some support here that’ll just pep me up 1%. Because that's, that's what it takes. I think, like, it's just feeling 1% better about something could completely transform it. I haven't got the energy, nor do I want to, be the sort of person that is like running through a meadow, like punching the air, like skipping like, Whoa, life, let's go! Like that just is not- that does not appeal to me, I just want to feel all right. I just want to feel like pretty neutral. Like, you know, and don't get me wrong, I love life and love events, etc. But I also just want to feel neutral, because I know what it is to experience the highs and lows and how I don't do well with that. To someone that has experienced anxiety, if I can just keep myself in like my safety zone, I make good decisions. I'm a better friend, best sister, better husband, better doggy mummy, all sorts when I feel right. And so much of that is not, just kind of it's, of course, it's making peace with yourself and appreciating yourself and having a sense of, you know, respect for yourself or, you know, to talk a lot about self worth, which sounds like a big topic. But it's also about like the environment that we're in too. There's a quote, now forgive me, because I forget the reference for it. I'll try and find it for the show notes babe. There's a quote, which is kind of like, if you find a flower doesn't grow, you don't blame the flower, you look at the environment. You're like, Oh, well, is it in the shade? Oh, it's not getting enough sunlight. Or, you know, oh, have we watered it yet? No, no, we need to put it somewhere where it gets water. And I think all too often we kind of look at ourselves and are really hypercritical that I'm not enough of this, or I'm not this person, I'm not showing this person. And actually, we're not with the people that can bring that out in us. And that doesn't mean you have to be surrounded by 20 people that get the pom poms out at the end of your bed every morning, having like one mate on WhatsApp that like really cares enough about you to wish you good luck on a job interview. Or, excuse me, said you know what? I'm not sure that date is right for you, mate. Because have you seen how he's been treating you? You know, like don't don't take that on yourself. It's like, it's not you. It's them. That can make all the difference too. I really think it makes a difference who you’re surrounded with.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, absolutely. I'm gonna shift us and kind of talk about- rather than people you're surrounded with, the people who you aren't surrounded with, and are looking at from a distance. In the wonderful world of social media. [Lucy laughing] Because, and I knew this was gonna happen and this is why I was so keen to have you on for an episode. But as soon as I asked on Instagram for people to send in questions about comparison, and sort of issues with comparison, that I just had a flood of emails from, mostly teenage girls I’ll say, so like, the slightly younger end of my followers, maybe, who just had so many questions about- and similar questions, about how do you stop comparing yourself to other people on social media? Is that a huge part of your job now, I can only imagine?

Lucy Sheridan: It is, certainly, yeah. And it affects all different ages and backgrounds, too. I wish it was as easy if I was to say to you Well, if you just put your finger behind your right ear, you'll feel there’s this like, you know, button, you just press it. And then when you press that, like you don't compare yourself anymore on social media. Isn't that there? Are there are steps to it, though. And also like you have to want to do it. I know that sounds strange. Like why would I want to compare myself? It's a bit of a twisted thing. Because if we're comparing ourselves, it's easier to do that and to sit and judge someone else online than it is to maybe think Well, what do I want to do? What do I want to wear? What do I want to pursue? Who do I want to date? What do I want to cook? What do I want? It's really is much easier just to look at other people and just zone out and almost numb out in our judgement of them. So when it comes to how do we actually stop, there are a few starting points. It's a bit of a jigsaw that you put together. And then repetition comes in. And again, forgive me for using the analogy again, the more you do it, you put these positive things in place, the stronger it gets. And then you start to notice. It's not like you wake up, you're like, [joking] Oh, I can see from my app! I'm not comparing anymore! How fantastic! But what you'll start to notice is- Hold on a second. I haven't sought out that person spontaneously on Instagram for months. Hold on a second. I'm looking at their social media posts, and I just think, huh, that looks nice, rather than what it says about me or how different we are or how much better they are. It's quite subtle when it comes to dissolving away comparison. And it is a dissolving, rather than like a severance, like a guillotine kind of like, hard action.

Gemma Styles: So I've obviously just said that I had a lot of messages from teenage girls, but not to generalise. Like you've just kind of mentioned it is something that can affect everybody. Would you say there are different kinds of comparison that tend to come in as you get to different stages of life, is it quite- does it change? Or is it just… throughout?

Lucy Sheridan: Well, yeah, I would definitely say of course, it's unique to the individual, but it can change certainly. So I would say, I would say as we get older, it's things that in I- what I've been able to see like through doing this for a long time, like spoken to thousands of people is- in our maybe like 20s, earlier, kind of years, it might be that we compare ourselves to, do I have a relationship? Am I at this place in work? As we get older, it can tend to move towards more milestones comparison. So how am I at this stage? Have I achieved this just yet? That said, what I would always say is there are four types of comparison. And so I've kind of like developed this personality quiz around this, I'll share if you might be curious to hear like, maybe I'll share with you what mine is. You want to share yours? That's totally cool. And if you know, listeners, if you would let me know what yours is, that's fine, too. I've identified four different types of comparison. So it's a Scanner, a Scout, an Archer and a Squirrel. Okay, I'll explain cuz I get that they sound a little bit strange. So a Scanner is someone that compares themselves in lots of different ways to lots of different people at lots of different times. So if you think about what a Scanner is, literally [beeping noise] D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D, like totally scanning the landscape, what's in front of them. A Scout is someone that compares themselves in lots of different ways at lots of different times. But it's not just strangers on the internet, everyone, it's more to maybe like their best friend, or the people that live down the street to them. So they're generally comparing, they’re comparing to people that are actually in their lives. Whereas a Scanner is a bit more random. It's like everyone, like, you know, blogger on the internet, lady down the road, you name it, it's all there. Then there's the Archer. Now, I'm an Archer. And that means you compare yourself to someone you don't know, like far away, potentially stranger on the internet, or even a friend's friend. And you compare yourself in one area. So I tend to compare, when I do compare myself, and it's very rare these days, it's kind of very spread out the occurrence of it, thank goodness. But when I do compare myself, it's usually to do with work, professional stuff. And someone that looks like online, a stranger in America that looks like they've got it all going on. And I'm like, Oh, they look great, I wish I was like them, you know, in the moments where I do it. And then we have a Squirrel. A Squirrel compares in this way: they compare in one specific way to like one person they might know, or a few different specific ways to someone they might know. So for example, you might compare your house style and your interiors kind of like you know, prowess to you mate at work. Or it might be you compare your relationship to your best friend's relationship, or maybe rank a bit there. But it's a Squirrel, you kind of like you go looking for that nut. [laughs] You gotta keep that nut and so it's the cutest type, but it's still you know, it's still dangerous. And so there are four different types. I used to be a Scanner. So I used to compare lots of different ways to lots of different people a lot of different times. It's as exhausting as it sounds. But now, I'm an Archer. And I'm open to that it might change in between time as well.

Gemma Styles: Hmmmmm. I think I am probably a Scanner. Yeah, I don't know, I think that, I think there's definitely a different areas of life.

Lucy Sheridan: Yeah.

Gemma Styles: And it probably is… I think I probably compare myself much more to people I don't know. So I have seen online, for example, than to people I do know. It's an interesting one, isn't it? When I'm trying, I'm trying to actually now think about the different ways that I do compare myself to people. Yeah, I think because I am you know, I'm like a little bit older now. So those those kind of like life milestone-y kind of things that you compare to other people, but then also there's people who, you know, I might follow on Instagram who, I, I follow them because I admire them professionally. And I like the things that they do. But every so often I'll just I'll see something and think like, oh, like I couldn't do that, or Yeah, I wish I could do something like that.

Lucy Sheridan: Yeah. And that's it isn't it, it’s kind of that trigger in that moment that makes such a difference. And what we've got to do is try and catch that, really. And that's what you know, some of the tips that I often share with people that need kind of that immediate fix if they haven't got time to like sit and do like a coaching exercise, is you have to kind of notice what you notice. In that moment and try and catch it. And so for example, in that situation, what I mean if you compare yourself in any moment, so it like let's just say you're scrolling your phone at lunchtime and you see something and then you go deeper and deeper and deeper. And then it ruins your afternoon. And then you don't get your stuff in for boss and you kind of end up getting a telling off, and then it ruins your week, you know, so comparison can like be a bit of a spiral, what I would say in that moment is the minute comparison strikes, say Good for you, and the same for me. Good for you, and the same for me. So I acknowledge that you're experiencing, living, having what I want. But I also give myself permission to have my version of it, like I'm treating this, this as a moment of inspiration of how we're similar in some way, because we share kind of this ambition or this desire, but I'm not gonna let it derail me in this moment, I'm gonna let it just be what it is, so Good for you, and the same for me is really, really powerful in those circumstances.

Gemma Styles: That is a great little mantra. I think it is, like you say, it's the kind of thing that you would have to practice. And I think it is probably something that I've got better as I've got older, if anything, that I do have that sort of internal dialogue now, where if I noticed myself doing it and thinking like, I mean, it could be anything, couldn't it? Oh, what a like, wow, lovely hallway, that person’s got.

Lucy Sheridan: [laughs] It really could.

Gemma Styles: Or yeah. What a cute baby or like, oh, what, what an amazing book they've written. It could be anything and anything and everything, but I do I catch myself. And I'm like, Oh, that's really nice. Like I want I wonder if I want that? But now, I am better at sort of then thinking, Well, no, that's great for them. I'm happy for them. They probably also do this and look online and see people who they're jealous of and where is it getting me and who has given me this idea? And let's just move on and have a cup of tea.

Lucy Sheridan: There you go that’s it, it's moving yourself through it. Moving yourself through is so important. And you can sometimes, well, I would kind of say there's also like, if you've answered, it seems like there's got to go a bit deeper. So for example, if you're seeing what- that thing you're comparing yourself to it, you're absolutely right to like I say, just move through it, Gemma, as you've said. There's also an opportunity to say, Okay, what is this showing me about what I want? And with that in mind, what's my next right move? So for example, let's say that you are comparing and you're like, Oh, well, it's getting a bit tricky, I am struggling with comparison in this moment, rather than letting yourself go and like fall into it is to say, obviously, good for you and the same for me. But also, okay, what is it that this moment is able to teach me that I can use right now? So let's say that you're getting, you're looking at someone who's doing lots of write- that they're really doing loads of blog content. And you're like, Oh, my gosh, like, How on earth are they managing to do all that, and it's Oh, my blog will never be as good as theirs and it off, it goes off, it goes off, it goes to negativity. Rather than going down that road, instead, it's a case of, Oh, I really have to make time to get a blog post out by next Wednesday. Let me look at my diary now, so that I can finish off the one that's been on my phone notes app for about two weeks. Where can I get the pictures for it? When am I going to finish it off? When can I post it? And and make a little plan for yourself. That has nothing to do with the traffic that is going to the other person's blog, and everything to do with what your plan is to move forward with what you want. That's what we're able to do is just cut through the fog so that the comparison can kind of, you know, generate and make it feel difficult to move forward for ourselves. Like, hold on. This is a flag of what's important to me. How can I act on this right now? Or certainly soon? So the focus goes from the other person, what they have, to you and what you are trying to create? And it's a really, really powerful process.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think I mean, I can I can easily imagine applying that to something when it comes to work, for example. Would you say that the advice you would give would be the same if somebody has a problem with comparison, that's more to do with, say, comparing their body to somebody else's?

Lucy Sheridan: Yeah, I would- I would say it's slightly different in that sense. And I tend to refer on and partner up people that have specific body comparison considerations, because that's kind of outside my remit. What I would say, though, that I do, I do feel from kind of that experience and kind of having so many conversations about this, which I love to have with people, is that when it is perhaps kind of an appearance comparison that's happening, it's really important to look at kind of where is your self worth at? What is it that makes you feeling, what is it that's making you feel not enough in this moment, and sometimes that takes a bit of a process and a bit of revisiting and going back about what our beliefs are about how we should or shouldn't look, etc. Or how we can um, you know, connect more with the body that we do have rather than the ones that we’re being told to? And so I do, I do think there is different advice there. I think there is, when it comes to comparison like that one, which is one that soooo many of us like on the human, in the human race, human race share, that it's important to go a bit deeper and then if it is kind of starting to take over things as well, make sure that you're getting specific help and support to discuss that. And to kind of, you know, help you feel better about yourself. I think that's really important because it isn't just a case of Oh, just don't look. Especially with body comparison. The reasons for that can be many and complex. So it's like, love yourself enough to check it out, rather than just try and like, you know, be flippant about it or change who you are.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, I like that advice. Do you find that different people, because, as you say, we all compare ourselves to other people, but do different people react to comparison differently? So I'm kind of thinking of like, you know, some people's personality, where if, if you tell someone like, Oh, you can't do that. You can't do it. Some people will think, Well, who the hell are you to tell me I can’t do it? I'm going to prove you wrong. And I'm going to do it. And some people, which I'm probably more like this, if somebody tells me You can't do that, you're not good enough to do that, then I'll be like [sad voice] Oh okay, I won't try. Yes, terrible. Do you think people can react the same way to comparing themselves to other people? Do some people find it motivational and some people find it just makes them sad?

Lucy Sheridan: Yeah, I, I definitely think that some people use comparison as only an inspiration and like a view of what's possible, and they can use it to drive forward and then and it's not even like necessar- I think it's the most in the moment how you feel. I might compare myself in work. And say yeah, I can go and do, do that, too. But I compare myself in kind of like, fashion, and think I could never do that. So I suppose it varies for individuals as well. But I certainly feel there are some things that we see. And we are inspired and ignited and like motivated by the possibility. And there are some things where if it's a particular kind of like, comparison trap for us, we just reinforce what we can't do. What I try and kind of advise clients is that I try to tell people like, find your pips. So a pip is a Proof It's Possible. This is someone that has done what you want to do, achieved, experienced, whatever it is, even if they're way older than you or way younger, forget age, has done what you want to do. Find that proof it's possible, and then you'll find that you'll always have a source of inspiration for that area of comparison to go back to, even if it's triggered by someone else. And because, I know some people just walk around life thinking it’s just like just one big Pinterest board, look at everything that’s on offer! How amazing! And then there are the rest of us. [laughs] Who are like, Ugh, this feels a bit clunky, actually, you know.

Gemma Styles: I really like that you say that in a weird way, only because, you were the world's first and only comparison coach.

Lucy Sheridan: Yeah.

Gemma Styles: But you tell everyone that I need to go for this proof it’s possible… Yet you've managed to do this thing that nobody else had done before, where was your pip?

Lucy Sheridan: [laughs] Well, I suppose and I had to be my own little pip. Because I could see that for example when people were kind of saying, Can you tell me what you've done? And like, well, I can show you what I've done. So you can do it for yourself. I can't, I can't, there’s no point me just telling you what I've done. That's just a story. Like that, it's kind of like you can compile your own little bits of evidence, um, along the way, and I suppose it's kind of, even though there wasn't a pip for someone that did exactly what I had, I could see people around me doing elements of what I wanted. So I could take bits and pieces from there, and be excited about putting them all together.

Gemma Styles: Do you think there are some easy ways to tell when you're you've gone beyond normal human tendency comparison, to know when you're in a position where comparison is really something that's become a problem for you?

Lucy Sheridan: Yeah. I think each of us have our own scale? I know, certainly, I'll speak for myself. And I've seen this with clients as well. But I'll not give other references, I'll use myself as a case study, I started to become fixated. So you know, I will be like rinsing the hair in the morning thinking, I wonder what so-and-so’s gonna post today, I wonder what they're doing. Like it became like a bit of a fixation on people. And it would mean that I couldn't really get through the day without, I couldn't get through the day feeling focused as well, because it would be so distracting. Whether it was you know, from tasks, or other more, kind of, important things. So I think we each of us know, when something's got a bit out of hand, and your bit out of hand might be different to my bit out of hand, and then someone else down the line, you know, someone else might think, Oh, I'm typing their name randomly into the search bar on the ‘gram, maybe I should cool off a little bit here. What am I doing? Whereas kind of like my phone had to die, because I was doing that so much [laughing] before I stopped.

Gemma Styles: [jokey] Too much searching.

Lucy Sheridan: Yeah, exactly. So I think it's individually, it's totally individual for each of us. But like, you'll know. It may be very uncomfortable to realise it, it's quite confronting, actually. But you'll know when it's just it's gone a bit too far.

Q&A

[music starts and fades]

Gemma Styles: Every week, my guest and I will be answering your questions, and the first one comes in from Chandra…

Could you talk about comparing yourself to other versions of yourself? Sometimes I feel bad about myself for not working as hard, or looking as nice, or being as happy as I was during different points in my life. Is this normal?

Lucy Sheridan: It's absolutely normal. And I will say I've got quite a, I've got quite a strong opinion on this. Because sometimes I see quotes like, the only thing you should compare yourself to is the previous you. No. No comparison is ever really that helpful when you're in a place of, kind of looking to criticise yourself. What I would say is around this, when we kind of find ourselves in this moment, with those moments it’s so important, so what I would do in this moment is put my hand on my heart and rub it and I'd say, like, I'm right here. I'm so glad for every step it's taken me to get right here. I'm so glad and proud of all my experiences. And there are some parts that I wish were happening now. But I wouldn't be who I am today, right in this moment, had I not, had I not had to work for it. Like, I have to honour who I am in this moment. Whether it can fit in those jeans, or I'm dating that person, or I've still got that job or not, we have to honour ourselves in this moment. It’s a real disservice to who you are today, to be idolising and holding on a pedestal who you were or what you were doing three years ago. If there are things that you really wish were still there? So for example, like you were in a period of motivation, you're like ugh so sluggish at the moment. Well, first of all, as we're recording, we're going through one of the most bizarre years the human race has ever seen. So rather than like, I must force myself to be motivated!- look what was happening at the time you were motivated. Oh, well, I was getting up early. I would really like, loved that new album I was listening to, I discovered, I’d rediscovered this cool hobby and then suddenly, it just gave me more energy. So rather than, like, I wish I was like that, again, look at how can I create the conditions to get that result today? And you can kind of like draw from the inspiration, the clues that that past self left you, but be kind and attuned to yourself in this moment.

Gemma Styles: I think that's a really good answer and I mean- I'm gonna sneak in a bonus question. What the hell! It’s my podcast! I’m allowed to do it.

Lucy Sheridan: Yeees, do it! She's power mad! [laughing]

Gemma Styles: There was a very similar question from Maria, who asked about when other people compare you to old versions of you and say they maybe don't like the new you?

Lucy Sheridan: Well, I have a strong opinion on this as well, which is: It's in lots of people's interest, that you stay absolutely the same. That you stay predictable, and that you stay as they would expect you to be, because that makes you safe. And it can keep you small. It's not in your interest not to grow. It's not. And we will, there’ll be some pals you've got, some colleagues you've got, name any sort of person- there are some relationships that you grow at the same sort of rate at the same sort of pace. And there's an easy acceptance there. They're like our peeps, whether you've known them two days or 200 years, they're like, they're your people. And there'll be some people that will find your growth really triggering and uncomfortable because they want it, or they want to control you, or they don't want things to change at all. So how do you, how do you answer to that comparison? Well, the bigger picture is do you want the relationship to continue? Because what is going to be the result of their continued comparing of yourself to your past? If they, if they because- because- it's a way of not accepting who you are. That's really uncomfortable. What they’re saying is, I would prefer you if you were different. But I'm not different. I'm here. So first of all, there's that larger question, bigger question, which does not have to be a burn and destroy where you go on social media going Yeah, if you can't accept me for who I am, you're out of here! It's like yeah, you Auntie Pauline, and you and you, you're all out. Like it's like, whoa-

Gemma Styles: See ya!

Lucy Sheridan: Yeah, exactly. Shut the door behind ya, like, cool your jets. So there's that question, which is for you as an individual to ponder, but there's also just coming up with ways just to survive and get through those moments. So things like, you know, Why do you always do that? Why don't you do what you used to do? And you say something like, it works for me. And just move the conversation on. Or even like, yeah, fair enough. You know, and I would say, it's important not to be too deferential and like submissive, but if you want to get through the conversations, cuz you do deeply love that person. You want to then have a conversation down the line about how it's making you feel. That's important, too, because another thing I'd say is, if it gets to the point where a bit of light banter, which can hide a bit of meanness, actually-

Gemma Styles: I quite agree.

Lucy Sheridan: Um, if it gets to the point where yeah, that can be the most hurtful can’t it. Like, Well, I was only joking! I'm like, No, you’re gaslighting me but anyway. [laughs] But that's for another time. If the comparison to your past self continues to such a point where it's make you feel uncomfortable, and it's becoming a theme of conversation, then it's for you to say, I just need to highlight that most times we're together, you talk about how I was two years ago. But I'm right here, now. And it's making me uncomfortable, and actually it's making me feel quite upset. So I'm going to ask you don't do anymore. And if you do, we might have to look at whether this friendship is going to go all the way. Because I really love you. And you're a good friend to me, which is why I feel like it's okay for us to have this difficult conversation. I don't want to have this conversation either. But it's more important that I tell you this, than keep coming up against these jabs, because it's not okay. And I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings and hope you won't want to hurt mine. So can I just ask that you just knock it on the head? And more often than not, you'll get a Oh, gosh, huh? All right. Yeah, okay, fine. All right, calm down, whatever it is. But if it gets you the result, is really important. Those conversations get easier as you get older, I would say. But it is important that we start to show, just- you don’t have to be brave, you can have a little bit of courage around those things. It might save the friendship, might save the relationship.

Gemma Styles: Ooh, I'm so glad that I snuck that question in. Next question is from Eduarda, who asks,

I've noticed that I've struggled to be genuinely happy when something good happens for a friend, especially another woman, whether it's career wise, or in their personal life. It's like my brain thinks because something good is happening to someone, I can't have the same thing. It's very frustrating. And I feel like I'm being a terrible friend.

Lucy Sheridan: So thank you, Eduarda, for your vulnerability here. I think a number of us can relate to this. So thank you for bringing this to the conversation. And so what this is referring to, or is kind of related to is the zero sum game, the myth of the zero sum game. And what that means is that a win for someone else is a loss, or a takeaway from you. And it's a myth. It isn't that case. There's a few different steps to counter this, because, again, it takes a little bit of work rather than- there's the switch and here's how you flick it. So first of all, I think it's really important you’ve acknowledged, I don't want to feel this way. I don't want to be bitchy, I don't want to be resentful. I don't want to not be genuinely happy when I'm sending those emojis even though I am the clenched teeth emoji like grrrr oh, well done, I suppose [laughing] Congratulations, I suppose, kind of thing. Um, so it's really important that you get that and that you want to make the shift so that you can be happy, cuz that's what you want to get back in return, too. This sometimes takes a little bit of space and time to like work on ourselves and just look after ourselves a little bit. So what I’m not gonna say is, just unfollow them. That's a short term solution that might help in the short term, just to give yourself a bit of space while you regroup. But then it's important to be looking at- so what I think is an amazing um, way of dissolving comparison is look at the ways you're similar to the person that the good thing is happening to rather than what makes you different. So even if it's our hair is sort of similar, we both like this music or something else [laughing] completely random. Look at the way somehow randomly like that you are similar, and it will connect you in that moment, even if it's brief, and not the strongest, instead of separating and fragmenting what's going on in that moment. And just even doing that, like, I do like her ring, I do like where the proposal happened, or I think she's done really well on that her LinkedIn profile is amazing, whatever it is, just looking for the ways that you are similar, and the positives about what's accessible to you can really, really help in the moment. If it's getting a bit too much like I say, a bit of space- which doesn't have to be announced- a bit of space can work absolute wonders, a bit of space can work absolute wonders so give yourself that space to regroup, work on yourself, um, look kind of like working is- when we say work on yourself it’s, such a like, a general term, what I mean when I say that is give yourself some care and compassion, look at your mindset, look at kind of what's important to you and look at making sure that you are living your values, you're going after what you want, that you're clear on what your goals are. Because here's the thing, when you're in your own lane, like you literally do not care what anyone else is really doing. I know certainly what my comparison comes up when I don't have a plan. I've not really kind of thought about what I want. I'm not excited maybe about anything in that moment. And I feel maybe a bit like, lost at sea. That's when my like most intense severe comparison has happened. When I'm plodding along on my own, in my own lane, comparison just cannot get to me. It just cannot get to me. So the question isn't like how do I cope and like, just feel better? The question is, how do I invest in myself so that I can be really, really happy with what I'm doing and the lane I'm in, such that when I see other people reporting stuff, I’m like fist bump to you, emoji to you.

Gemma Styles: [half laughing] I'm really loving this. I feel like I'm having a semi private therapy session. I think this is all such good information.

Lucy Sheridan: [laughing] Oh, thanks love.

Gemma Styles: Next question is from Liz. And she says,

Is there a way to turn comparison into a positive rather than a negative? Rather than focusing on comparison as a bad thing, are there any techniques you can apply to take a mindset and use it to drive you and your achievements?

Lucy Sheridan: Well, I think kind of building on what we said to Eduarda's question or maybe kind of the question before that too, is we can go even further, and we can look at kind of like, using what inspires us to make our own practical source of inspiration as well. So let's say that um you want to, you know, you're comparing yourself to someone who's just done something in their career, you might make like a vision board about like what your, your next like most exciting career path could be. And then you might not only- and then what you're doing is you're not only playing off the inspiration and making it your own about what that person does, you can also go and find other pips as well. So find like 10 people like that friend, or that stranger on the internet that's doing what you want to do as well, get excited by all the people that in their own way, at their own time of life, on their own, in their own lane are doing what you want to do or experiencing what you want to. So I suppose another way of that is, crowd yourself with the inspo. If, because it's interesting, like, someone might report something, and they've had like a promotion at work, I’m just using an easy example, they've had a promotion at work where you’re like, Yeah, well done! But then someone else does and it’s like ugh God of course she’s got the promotion… [laughing] You’re gonna want to put your focus on the people that maybe don't irritate you. We all get irritated, because welcome to the human race. You want to be putting your focus there, but like, crowd yourself with inspiration, and also like, write down the reasons why you're inspired and why it's important to you as well, because that will connect you deeply with yourself and your own goals. And that means comparison, please excuse me, comparison kind of can't carry you off and drop you somewhere.

Gemma Styles: Perfect. Okay. And last one I've got for you is from Carla. And she says,

I've read so many articles about how to make sure my feed isn't full of things that make me feel bad about myself. But what can we do to not make our friends or followers feel bad? Every time I'm about to post something really good that happened at work, I think how can I share this in a way that doesn’t seem like I'm bragging about it and doesn't make other people feel bad?

Lucy Sheridan: Okay, first response is- not your job. It's not your job to try and control or manipulate like how someone else is going to feel. Because you just simply cannot guess and control that. What I'd say Carla is, the energy always leads. You posting something that you're excited about at work, people will know like how excited you are about it, how hard you've worked for it, how much you've been looking forward to it, and they will flood you with the good vibe that goes with that. Nice one, Carla! Oh my god, I knew you'd been, I knew this was gonna happen for you, good on you. Because you're posting from a place of, please celebrate with me, this is really important. What is different to that is when someone is doing what might call a boast post. Ohhhh, just casually, you know, going to The Shard for another meeting because I'm really powerful and important. Like oh casual, like well, you know, #LOL, you know, #relax, whatever it is, and passing it off as no big deal. When actually it is a big deal. And that does feel a little bit fake and it does feel irritating. And it does make people feel bad. Like, Oh, come on, you're pretending it's all casual. When actually we know that it's- there's a lot of effort that's gone into it. So to summarise on that- the energy always leads. And that is, if you post the intention of sharing, to just to like mark this important thing in your work, do it, it will be picked up like that. But don't shrink or filter yourself, because then when does it stop? You know, when does it actually stop. So it can be really dangerous habit to go into. I wouldn't want my friend not giving me the full extent of her, you know, giving her the full extent of her excitement, all the details, you know on something, because of what other people might think? I want to celebrate that. So we're never going to be able to control what people think and how they feel. And if they’re having a good day or a bad day, we can't do that- all we can do is be responsible for what we're putting out and how we do it. And if tho- they're both kind of clean and positive? Like, post till the cows come home.

Gemma Styles: I think also even just from the self awareness in that question of being so aware of not wanting to hurt people's feelings, I'm quite sure that that's not what you're gonna do.

Lucy Sheridan: Absolutely, great. Yes.

Gemma Styles: Remember, if you want to get in touch with us or have any questions for future episodes, email me at goodinfluencepod@gmail.com.

Recommendations

[music]

Gemma Styles: Before you go, I've got three things that I ask of every guest and that's if listeners want to find out more about what we've been talking about… Can you give us something to read, something to listen to and something to watch please?

Lucy Sheridan: So, um, something to read- may I be so bold as to suggest my book The Comparison Cure? [laughs]

Gemma Styles: You absolutely may be so bold.

Lucy Sheridan: Thank you. So my book The Comparison Cure: How to be Less Them, More You does what it says on the tin. So I think that can be a really, really- I wrote that as a manual to kind of download everything that at that point, everything that I do with private clients, so it's really as a handbook to get you to that point of comparison free. To listen to, I would say there's a great book called The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks and this is a really interesting book to listen to, because you know, it's a great one to kind of get you thinking about how do you limit yourself? How am I affecting my confidence? How am I holding myself back? And there are sooo many practical gems in there. I go back to listening to that audiobook at least once a year, maybe more if I'm feeling a bit down, I think it's a great place to go back to. For things, for something to watch to help with comparison, I simply must recommend the Brené Brown talk on vulnerability. And I think you know, if you’ll allow me to say, anything else Brené themed, Brené Brown’s documentary or show on Netflix, as well is amazing, so, I love, love, love Brené Brown, and that talk she did on Ted about being vulnerable and how there being strength in owning how we feel, has such a big impact and is so relatable to how we can stop comparing ourselves too and the benefit of them. So they will be my three gems.

Gemma Styles: I haven't seen that Ted Talk. And that sounds excellent so I’m gonna have to put that on my list.

Lucy Sheridan: Oh, you're gonna love it.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, sounds like I would love it.

Lucy Sheridan: Yes, you would.

outro

[music]

Gemma Styles: Thank you for listening to Good Influence and thank you Lucy for joining me. If you've enjoyed the episode, please take a minute to subscribe to the podcast on Global Player, or wherever you're listening. And if you're feeling generous rate and review too. It's really appreciated and helps others find the podcast. See you next week!