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intro

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Gemma Styles: Hello, I'm Gemma, and welcome to Good Influence. This is the podcast where each week you and I meet a guest who will help us pay attention to something we should know about, as well as answer some of your questions. This week, we're talking about money. Why mindset is so important in approaching our finances, how our parents can affect our thinking, and some ways to rethink our relationship with how we spend. So joining me this week is Natalie Scott. Natalie is a money mindset coach who in her own words, works to educate, elevate and empower millennials and Gen Z to to banish their self limiting beliefs. She offers one to one coaching for clients and features as a guest speaker on platforms including BBC Radio, as well as sharing her advice and guides on social media to help you Pay Yourself First.

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discussion

Gemma Styles: Have you always worked in finance and money? Like how do you get into being a money coach?

Natalie Scott: Honestly, no. So I started off working in fashion, which I still currently am in. And I've been in fashion for almost a decade now. And I like to do a lot of voluntary work outside of fashion. So working with charities such as Crisis, and a lot of the work that I do, I go into schools, so secondary, primary, colleges and universities, and I talk about my career in fashion. What led me to start talking about finance is because I found when I went into the secondary schools, the kids presumed on a large paycheck each year. And then they didn't kind of understand how I was able to live a lifestyle on a modest income, because they weren't taught money management. And I thought actually, it’s all well and good going into schools talking about fashion, but finance is definitely missing. So from that I continued to go into schools, but I brought the two together, so I talked about fashion, and I talked about finance. And I had a really good reception from it. So then I started bringing it onto Instagram, and talking a bit more about finance. And literally, it just really went from there. So what started as me mentoring, in my spare time for three years, transitioned into me coaching young people, one to one.

Gemma Styles: So I wanted to do an episode about money. Because when I've been, you know, doing the planning for the podcast, and sat down and thinking things out and thinking about topics. You know, one of the things that I'm saying that I want to talk about is, you know, stuff we should know about, but maybe we don't. And I felt like money was such a big one of those that it feels like, I don't know, I've always felt like it's quite easy to feel like you're a step behind with money. I don't feel like it's something that everybody gets taught about, like maybe some people's parents teach them. But we're not really taught in school properly. Am I right in thinking that?

Natalie Scott: No, you're absolutely correct, Gemma we're not. And there's a reason for it. I think like with- not knocking like educational institutions, because they're great. But we are kind of taught, you know, get an education and then work decades and then retire, we're kind of taught to go on that hamster wheel, we're not kind of taught a lot about entrepreneurship, that's something that you pick up along the way, the same with money. And the same with business. So for myself, I was brought up in a working class family. And you know, we were very- we were comfortable. But I think most of it does stem from your upbringing, what you see from your family. And although it was great, and I learned a lot, I didn't know everything. So I had to go forward and seek that knowledge myself. So I had to read books, I had to go to certain events and be the only young person in the room. And that's just a choice that I made. And not everyone would want to do that. Everyone feels that they have to do. But for me, I felt like that's what I needed to do to kind of learn a bit more about money.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, I think it's quite a tricky thing as well, I think because, you know, even- it's quite easy to say, you know, we should be taught more about money management in schools. But now I'm trying to think, you know, school was a long time ago for me now, and I think even even if you are taught some stuff in school, like when it doesn't feel like it's particularly relevant to you because, you know, at 14, 15, 16 the thought of- I don't know, being in that fully, you know, adult life where you think, right, well, I'll be working full time will I be, you know, paying my rent and like, trying to buy a house, it all feels like such a long way away. That I think maybe by the time we start paying attention again [laughs] and are sort of like getting more into our 20s it's kind of like, Oh, well, I don't remember that anyway. So now where do I start?

Natalie Scott: No, 100% and I feel like there are certain milestones in school and in education, when we need to be taught about money. So when you're about to leave school and go into college, you might think oh, let me get a little part time job. That's a really important time to start learning about money. That’s the first time you're going to be earning anything. And obviously most of us will live at home at that age. So you think, oh, that money is my money, I can spend it wherever I want. But at that point, you'll be really good to introduce the power of saving, like living at home and being able to save not just spending everything that you earn, because if you spend everything you earn, that's not the real world, when it comes to you having to pay your own bills, I do think there are certain increments where we can be taught this. So I think like when we leave school and going to college, and then when we leave school, and I'm sorry, when we leave college, and then going to university if we choose to, I think these are really important moments when we should be taught about money.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Would you say? So I tend to think of not talking about money, one I think can be a sort of stereotypically British thing that you don't talk about money because it's rude to talk about money or you know, what, wherever that belief comes from. But I think it's also something that I do associate with women and women in particular, don't talk about money. Would you say that you work more with women?

Natalie Scott: I do I work with predominantly women. I can't remember the last male client that I've had no, not on a long term basis. Yeah, predominantly women. And I think it's a shame really, but I understand it's a very British thing, we don't talk about money. We're at the bottom of the scale, whereas men earn more than women. So I think that's even more reason to talk about money, like we all know that we don't earn that much more, or sorry, that much yeah that much more compared to men or male counterparts. So I think it's important that we do talk about money and have these conversations because we talk about everything else. So I think money is very important to talk about, I feel like the reason why people stay away from it, men and women, is because a lot of times when you talk about how much you earn, it's almost like you're putting value on a person. Like it’s almost when you meet someone, like What do you do?? So by me telling you what I do, is that you then have a picture of who I am, or where I, where I rank? So when we talk about how much we earn, if someone earns like 25K to 30K, they might see that as a very humble, modest earning. And they might be like, oh God, if I tell someone I earned that much, they're gonna think I'm worthless, or I don't have enough or I can't do this, I can't do that. Whereas I've always said, it doesn't matter how much you earn, it's about how much you keep. Because me, I used to be on a modest income. Some people might say I still am, but I've done a lot with the little that I've had. And that's just stemmed from money management, not spending all your money on this or that, and just literally having a bit of grounds to you and not just like going AWOL with your money.

Gemma Styles: So one of the things that- so I follow you on Instagram- so one of the things I see you say the most and I feel like is one of your main things, correct me if I'm wrong, is the concept of paying yourself first?

Natalie Scott: Absolutely.

Gemma Styles: So, would you like to tell us a little bit about what what what you mean by that?

Natalie Scott: I'd love to. So I always say it because it's very, very important. Some people don't understand it. But hopefully after some explanation, you'll understand it. So paying yourself first is literally the act of when you get paid, you're putting money aside for yourself. So it's treating yourself as a bill. Most people have a big payment that comes out on the first whether it's their rent, their mortgage, or any kind of household bill. So my thing is this, how about on the first of the month, you set a payment going out to you in a separate account detached from your current account, and give it a name, Natalie’s treats or Natalie's house fund, Natalie's holiday fund, whatever you want to call it, put a name on it cuz when we put a name on something, we're likely to get to that goal a bit quicker. And then you set up an automated payment. So you don't manually make the payment. You set yourself up a direct debit or direct deposit into that savings account. And each month, that money goes out automatically when you get paid. And wherever it goes towards it’s building up towards that because people that don't pay themselves first, I don't understand why you go to work. Because we can't be going to work just to pay bills. We go to work to fund our lifestyles. We go to work to fund our goals. So how are we going to fund those goals? By paying ourselves first.

Gemma Styles: It makes sense when you say it, but immediately I kind of think okay, but how can I pay myself first when I know that I've got rent to pay or like how can I- if I'm looking at a chunk of money. I mean, this is slightly different for me anyway because I'm self employed. So I don't always get paid on the same day. But anyway, whenever you do get paid. I find it difficult to think that I would be the top priority of what I need to pay for…? And I think as soon as you think that is it is a weird mindset to be in.

Natalie Scott: It is, because I have a lot of people that say the same thing Gemma and then what happens is they pay all their bills first, you know, get that out the way and then they see what they've got left at the end of the month. And then at the end of the month they pay themselves. So they pay themselves last. And with that, it's a very psychological thing. Because if you pay yourself last, that's where you see yourself, you see yourself after all your bills have been paid. You know, you've done all of that. And then you know, oh, let me pay myself first. And then usually with that, it's not the amount that you originally wanted to pay. It's a lot, a lot less, because the end of the month comes, Oh, actually, I want to get this, I want to get that. And then literally, you might be left with like, 40 quid, okay, yeah, I’ll chuck that into my savings, or whatever you're saving for. So I think it's definitely mindset. And this is why money mindset is so important. When we talk about money, it's literally your foundation is your compass in life for how you react to things towards money. So we have to get our money mindset away from scarcity, away from Oh, but what if my bills don't get paid, your bills will get paid? That's another thing, they will get paid. But you have to be like, Well, I have to put myself somewhere first, because I'm the one that wakes up in the morning to go to work. I'm the one that does a long commute. I'm the one that works with people I don't necessarily like, so what are we getting out of this.? And even if it's a holiday, even if you see a holiday as a short term goal, we have to pay for that somehow. And that can be you, paying yourself first. And another thing I feel like we use the term paying yourself first people think oh my gosh, alarm bells. Does that mean that's like half my paycheck? No, you put an amount that is bearable for yourself, whether it's 10%, I think the minimum should be at least 10%. Especially if you're in the tax bracket of 20%, or the tax bracket or 45%. But tax man takes that without us even questioning it. So for ourselves, I think minimum 10 to 20% is what we should be able to put aside for ourselves whether that goes towards a holiday fund, a deposit on a house, whatever it is, we have to put money towards it so we can get to our goals quicker.

Gemma Styles: So would you say it is kind of like a goals funding exercise like whether that is, does that- So you said kind of treats… Are we talking about any sort of niceties that you want to aim towards whether it is big things like saving for a house or whether you are saving because you have got a hole in your trainers and you need a new pair?

Natalie Scott: Yeah, no 100% is all those things. So if I break down my own, I would like to get another property. So that's one of my big goals. So I'm saving for that. But that's not the only thing I'm saving for. So when I get paid, I have an automated payment that comes out. And then it splits itself into different pots. And those different pots will consist of a longer term goal, which may be the property which might take more of my money, then my emergency fund because that needs to be built up. And then holiday fund and then a little treats for me, I find it really hard to treat myself and my audience knows this, I find it very difficult because I'm such a saver at heart. But I'm learning that okay, although I save hard, I must be able to treat myself in the process. So I have a little account that's called treats for me with my Monzo. And I just put a little bit of something in there each month, and it builds up nicely. So it's about being nice to yourself, like knowing that there's hard things that you definitely want to save for, and also retirement’s in there as well. And you know, all nice stuff as well. So you just make it balance. And then when you make it balanced, it's easier for you to contribute to it.

Gemma Styles: Have you got any tips for people who might be wanting to do this and thinking that they've got no idea where to start with kind of making a budget. So like, if you're thinking I need to choose how much I'm going to pay myself first, I need to choose how much I'm going to going to set aside for this savings goal or that retirement fund or things. How do you start with that?

Natalie Scott: Well, I know a lot of people hate the B word, the budget word. So what I would say flip it on its head, look at it like a spending account. So look for your statement, your bank statement, get your last favourite Highlighter Pen out and just highlight all the things that you spend. So highlight all the fixed stuff that comes out your account. So your mortgage, your rent, electricity, gas, highlight that in one colour, and then another colour, highlight everything that you just spend. And that can be, [laughs] ahem, that can be food that could be subscriptions. And I kind of laughed just then because I saw something this morning on Instagram, and it said my bank statement looks like a food diary. [both laugh] And that's because a lot of people have been spending their money on food, especially during these unprecedented times. So I would highlight all the food that I've been spending, all the subscriptions that I don't really use, just highlight them and literally look at how much you've spent in that month. And that figure should shock you- if you haven't done this exercise before. And when you do that, that's when you're like okay, cool. I know people don't like to hear the word cut back, but we're going to use it. How can I cut back? Do I need to spend 20 pounds every weekend on takeout? Maybe do that once a month? Do I really need that Netflix? Okay, keep it you know you want it, okay, but look at other stuff like Spotify. Do you need it? I recently I cancelled my Spotify because I'm more into audiobooks so now I’ve got the free version. That's saving me 10 pound a month, it doesn't seem like a lot, but it definitely adds up that extra 10 pound now goes into my treats for me account every month, I add an extra 10 pound on it. So it's ways to see how you can free up some money to basically reorganise it and use it elsewhere. That's very important. And that way, you're not actually having to spend any extra money, you're just literally changing what you already have. And then if you want to bulk it up even more, then you see ways you can actually up your income, whether that's getting a pay rise- I know it sounds easier said than done, because I know it's quite quite nerve racking asking for a pay rise. But it is obviously one of the ways to boost your general net worth. And then look at how you can turn your hustle into a bit of extra income as well. What are you good at? What skills do you have? And literally getting paid from that. So there's definitely ways to do it. But it's just having to take that time out to actually to be like, okay, let me do this exercise and see how I can sort this out.

Gemma Styles: I think it's quite interesting that you say kind of, you know, see what your skills are, see what extra you could do, because that always makes me think of the way that a lot of younger people kind of work now. And the idea of that sort of side hustle and like, like Emma Gannon always talks about, you know, the kind of like multi hyphen career kind of model that a lot of people have. And you say that most of the work that you do is with like millennials and Gen Z, Gen [zee], Gen [zed], however we say it right? Is there a reason why you specifically work with those groups? Are there specific challenges that you tend to come across that we've kind of got as a subset?

Natalie Scott: Most definitely. So myself, I'm millennial. So for me to work with others like me, it's very easy, because I understand, I feel like with millennials, we've gotten the very short sticky end of the stick in regards to you know, just progressing, like trying to get on the property ladder. There's always something that's stopping us from getting there. And I feel like a lot of millennials do come through with the same questions. How do I get on the property ladder? How do I do this? How do I save that, so because I've got that experience, I’m best to serve those. And then with the gen Z's, the ones that are coming up just underneath us- I have to say with the gen Z's. They're very much entrepreneurial, and they're very much are like multi faceted, they’re on YouTube, you know, I'd be watching some of these YouTubers, and I'm shocked that they're like five or six years younger than me, oh, wow, I just didn't even know because they're just so hungry. And I really do like to see it. But being that they're young, they're getting all this money, and they don't know how to manage it. I work with models who are like 19, 20, 22, and they're male, they come to me all the time. Because they don't have to manage their money. Obviously, they're self employed, money comes at different times. They're also at uni, a lot of them. And then when their money comes, they get excited, and they spend it. Bearing in mind, they do live at home as well. So the reason why I'm reaching out to these particular groups is because they need it the most. And once you help them now while they're young, then that information goes with them throughout their adult lives. So it's really good to crack them while they're young to kind of make them understand- what are taxes? You're self employed, you need to make sure you're doing this, and really getting them start saving their money.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, for sure. I think it is one of the things with Gen Z is, this is what everyone always says about them they’re so, like, you describe like hungry. And I think that applies to everything in terms of like information, like, [joking tone] the younger generation than I, like, they just know so much more than I did at their age. And I think it's good if people are obviously then cracking on to other areas of life with that as well and are more aware of their money and managing themselves and managing their lives.

Natalie Scott: 100% literally they grew up with the internet. I had it when I, when I started… when I just left primary school? I think that's when the internet came? Don't quote me, but they grew up with it. Like from when they were young, they've had the internet, so they're always on it. And with me I'm like, I can't stand the internet, sometimes I just want to get away from it. But sometimes my business, my business is online, so I have to be on it. But for them it just comes so natural. And you just see their determination and you see that they treat themselves and they're spending their money on themselves and it's great to see but also with that you do also wonder Okay, how are you managing your money? Do you have an accountant because the worst thing, you don't want that letter from HMRC [British tax authority] saying Oh, you owe this you owe that because you just haven't worked out your finances properly and that's where I step in to kind of be like Hey, I got you guys let's let's work on this.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, like I'm not here to tell you that you can't have any fun or that you know, you can't spend any of your money but also I really don't want you to be in that position where you are in trouble.

Natalie Scott: 100% and I always tell them to get a financial advisor get an accountant because I'm neither of those. I can only- I can't really give you advice. I can give you experiences that I've been through and if you want to get more where I am now, this is what you need to do, you can get there a lot quicker, trust me, because the way that they're moving and the stuff that they're doing, they can definitely get everything that they want. But they just have to pay their way as well like all of us.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, definitely. It made me think- I mean, this is always how conversations go now, isn't it, you're like, Oh, I saw something on Instagram! [laughing] But I saw something on Instagram this week, which was on, where was it, I think it was on Clemmie Telford’s Instagram, who was talking about the next generation. So I actually don't even know if they would technically be Gen Z. But basically children who are small children now. And she was talking about how the fact that young children now never really see a lot of physical money. Because, you know, they might only see their parents, you know, tapping a card on a reader or, you know, you punch in a pin number, and, you know, you know, you never see any money. It goes into bank accounts, and then it goes into a little piece of plastic. Do you think that's- that sort of cashless society is something that's going to make it quite a different challenge for the next generation coming up?

Natalie Scott: I'm actually quite worried for them. Because when you take physical money away, it's almost like it's not real. So when you're using your card, and you’re tapping- that's another thing, it’s increased from 30 to 45 pounds now to tap because of the pandemic. So when you're tapping away, or you're using your phone, and you're not even tapping, not even typing in your pin, when that happens, it's almost like there's a disconnect between yourself and money, it’s like money's not real. And then you kind of forget how much you've actually spent. Whereas with me, I'm an old school kind of person, I like to take money out and have it in envelopes and kind of, that’s how I like to manage my money. So for the younger ones not having any accessibility to that, then unless they're taught by their family, their peers, their parents, on the importance of money, then, again, how are they going to… What's going to be their reactions to it? What's going to be their money mindset towards it? Because it's not a physical thing. Whereas when I was young, we had like, big jars of like pennies.

Gemma Styles: Same.

Natalie Scott: And we’d save them up, yeah, we'd save them up, and then we'll count them up, we’ll bag them. And that would be a monthly thing, me, my sister, my mum will go to the bank, and we'll deposit those pennies, and then we'll get a little slip, telling us how much you've put in. So I was always aware of the process of what money is and how pennies can turn into pounds. But with children, they're going to lose that. I'm thinking that in 20 years time, will we even have ‘1p’s, ‘2p’s? Will that be a thing?

Gemma Styles: Yeah, I have thought this.

Natalie Scott: And they’re missing out on that. And it's quite, it's quite scary. And I think there's a company I think it's called Henry, don't quote me, if it's a bank card for kids now. [It’s called Go Henry!] So there's somebody that introducing, and you can put their pock- their pocket money on it. And I don't know, even that kind of makes me feel a bit nervous. It's like, oh, gosh, kids are not even having access to actual fiat money. It's all on a card. So I guess if we're going to go down that road, we just need to teach them about it as much as we can. On a card.

Gemma Styles: Yeah. It's, I mean, even hearing you talk about that, to be fair, it's, I'm saying it as if it's something that's just about children, but actually- so you say you're a very kind of, you know, cash person, you have cash in an envelope, I'm exactly the opposite. I don't like having cash with me ever. And I am one of those people who never has any actual money on me and I wander around tapping my phone, or maybe a card in order to pay for everything. So [laughing] I feel like it could be me as well, who’s just completely losing the disconnect- it is much easier to forget what you're spending and forget, you know, not to keep track of it as easily. With that in mind, though. So we're not sure about how we feel about these Henry cards. But would you have any sort of tips for people who want to make sure that their children do have a decent awareness of money and what their, whatever, how it works?

Natalie Scott: I think just have conversations. Like, don't be scared to talk about money. In my household growing up money was a taboo we just didn't speak about it. I knew it was there. But we didn't have conversations. I just literally watched my parents and I mirrored them- My dad was very good at saving and so was my mum. So that made me a great saver, but we didn't talk about it. So I think like having those those Sunday dinner chats and actually talking about money, I think it's very important. And even something you said about, you don't use cash yourself, it's all on a card- with that there's ways around that to make that bit more better. So as again- have a spending account, say like you've got Monzo, they’ve got different pots so you can split it up. So you'd be like, okay, 200 pounds is for me to spend for the month to do whatever I want. When that 200 pound comes to an end, that 200 pound is finished. That's it. So you can split your money that way. But I've tried that and um, again, even though I'm a great saver, I'm tapping away, and I'm just like, Oh my gosh, I spent 20 pounds of my 200 pound balance, what am I doing, I spent it on coffee, like, it can get a bit crazy. So that's why sometimes I personally have to draw, withdraw the money. But as for kids, just have the conversation, and just because we're using a card, and there may not be cash around- when there is cash around, still have that conversation, like where it's my friends and their children are having birthdays, I always put five pounds in an envelope for them. And I give it to them. And I’m like what are you going to do with this five pounds and you have a conversation with them. Oh I'm going to save it. What are you saving for? You have these conversations and I think that's important that we don't lose that part. Because I remember being young, I’d always get like a little five pound, 10 pound in an envelope for a birthday. I mean, I don't know what they're gonna do now they're gonna transfer over, but...

Gemma Styles: That's such a good point. That was always- I mean, those were always very exciting birthday cards.

Natalie Scott: Yeah!

Gemma Styles: But yeah, do people still do that now? I don't know!

Natalie Scott: And that's the thing because you've got these new products for kids like you've got your JISAs, junior ISA, and you've got your child pension and how they've done them now is that they've opened it up where you can give the sort code and account number to family members, now so that anyone can put into these accounts so clearly that they are making that an option. So instead of giving physical money, just you know, just drop it in! It is a lot faster and it is a lot easier. I can't remember when last I've actually exchanged hands and cash. It’s always like transfer me this or transfer me that. When’s the last time you’ve been to an ATM? Don’t know. [laughs] It’s just, it’s crazy.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, it's so true isn’t it. Yeah, I can't really think either and especially this year to be fair, because everywhere, even moreso is trying to go more cashless.

Natalie Scott: Yeah, no cash no cash.

Gemma Styles: You know, we don't want to be touching things that a lot of people have touched before us, like coins and stuff. Germy things.

Natalie Scott: It’s crazy. Get the vinegar out. That's why I say.

Gemma Styles: [laughs] Soak ‘em, soak ‘em all down. Something slightly different I wanted to ask you about is- so you have a background in fashion, you work in fashion. So I wanted to know what you think about this, because it's a conversation that I was having with one of my friends the other day, when we saw, I think a news article about it. And it was about one of these services that seems to be more common now. I think it was Afterpay. There are obviously different ones like there's like Klarna. And I know there's other ones, I just can't think of the name of them.

Natalie Scott: There’s loads. Klara, Laybuy.

Gemma Styles: I'm quite curious to know what you think about those because I have read some negative things about them and you know, the impacts that they might have on people who don't necessarily understand exactly how they work. But I always see them. And you know, we're having this chat about, you know, how money affects younger people, how it affects women, and I feel like I really see those targeted quite hard at younger women. What do you think about those kind of services?

Natalie Scott: Honestly, I never thought the day would come where we're having to pay for… middle of the range clothing… with buy now pay later schemes. I never thought that would be a thing. I understand if you want electrical goods that may cost you 400 pound plus, but buying an ASOS dress for 20 pounds and having the option to pay 30 days later, or split it in three, is ridiculous to me. And it's almost become normal now. Because in the beginning we'd have these conversations, and now everyone's like oh it’s normal. It's a normal thing. Oh, yeah, Klarna it's an option. Let's just use it. Even when you don't need to use it, people are using it. And I think the fact that they target it at women, young women, because I think their target audience is definitely around like 16 to 30, it’s quite wide. They're making sure they got the catchment of the ones that are leaving school, the ones that are in college, the ones that are in uni, the ones that just got their first job, but they're very clever. And because they make it so attractive, because I saw something the other day- I won't name the brand in case they’re listening. [both laugh] But they did something where they attached like a 20% discount if you use buy now pay later scheme. And I was disgusted. And I tweeted them and I said this is disgusting. Because, okay, give your 20% to your students like you usually do, or just give a discount, but then to attach it, to lure people in, to say If you want a discount, use a buy now pay later scheme, I thought that was terrible. And really bad marketing, I don't think it should even be allowed, because it's like you're encouraging people to go into debt. And I say to go into debt because a lot of people do not understand that with these buy now pay later schemes- if you miss a payment, it's not only that you get a late payment fee, but that is noted on your credit file.

Gemma Styles: That was the article that I was reading. So it was this young woman and she used one of these schemes and kind of hadn't- hadn't really realised what the impact of it was. And had- had missed some payments and thought you know, oh, well, that's unfortunate. I didn't mean to miss the payments, but you know, I'll pay the… oh I dunno, seven quid or whatever it was, that was like the late payment fee, and thought that was kind of the end of it. And that was the punishment for your late payment. But then her credit score was in the toilet. And that's obviously going to have an effect for a long time. And people just don't know about this stuff.

Natalie Scott: They don't and, and it's just disgusting. And this is why people don't read the small print. I don't know why people don't read it. It's long, it's boring. But this is why you need to read the small print. If you’re not reading the small print- do not use them. I'll be very honest, because I have to be transparent. I have used Klarna before. And the only reason I used it is because I ordered more than one size, that was the only time I would I used it before, if I want to order a 50 pound dress in a size eight and a size 10. I'm not paying for it straightaway, because the process of getting it back is very long. And I used Klarna and liked one of them returned the other and paid off straightaway. And that's the only one time I've used it. But personally, never ever again, I just wouldn't do it because they're very clever. I mean, if you're not on your emails, you're not going to know your notification. If you are- if you don't have the actual app, you're not going to get a notification when it's due. So again, if we're not an organised person anyway, stay away. If you can't afford to pay outright, do not buy it.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, I mean, I'm really not the most organised person. So I'm- have always been wary of these things. And also, it's like, you know how we're talking about, you know, the things that you pass on to your kids. I do always remember very clearly one thing that my mum told me was to not get store cards. And I think it was probably when we were at the till for something. And I must have been quite young at this point. And somebody had sort of said to me, you know, you get 10% off today, if you sign up for this store card, you want to pay for it with the store card, and my mom was like, No, absolutely not a store card is a credit card. You don't do it.

Natalie Scott: Basically, yeah. Try and give it a new name. But it’s the same thing. [laughing] Same thing. I had a store card, I'm not going to lie when I was in uni. Never again, never again. Never ever, ever again. It just became a thing where Oh, let me use a store card even when I had the money to pay for it. Or let's use a store card. And it just blew up to this crazy amount at Topshop. And I was just like… this is the devil in disguise. [Gemma laughing] But yeah, I've never had a store card since. I mean, I love credit cards, don't get me wrong, but store cards? No, no, no.

Gemma Styles: So this is one of the things because I'm now quite conscious that you know, if we're sat here going, you know, this is a bad thing to do. This is a bad way to spend money- like, what, what is a good way to spend money?

Natalie Scott: Well, I always say live within your means. If you can. Or live below it, that's a good way. Because you, you will always have money available. Because credit cards, store cards, they're not available money, it's not your money. And it's not your emergency fund. This is why I say always build an emergency fund, when you're paying yourself first, you should be building an emergency fund of at least three months, they say three to six. But you know, we know it's hard out here. So at least if you can get three months of your expenses, not how much you take home each month, just your expenses, how much you end up spending each month, if you can save at least three months of that, and just have that sitting in an account that you do not touch, only for an emergency. I think that's very important. And a freedom fund as well. It's the same thing. So say for instance, something bad happens your car, your dishwasher, you lose your job, you've got an emergency fund to hold you over for three months. But say you want to leave a job. That can be your emergency, that could be your freedom fund, sorry, you want to leave your job. Most people want to leave their job, but they can't. Because they've got no money to fall upon. So it’s good to have a cushion of money that so you have choice to do whatever you want to do. I think that's really- it's quite empowering as well, to have that.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, I mean, it seems, this is the thing that I find interesting about how you talk about money as well. And that seems to fall under it is the- you know, you call yourself a money mindset coach, and it's all about, you know, thinking, the thinking behind it- almost seems more important than the actual sort of physical methods that you're doing.

Natalie Scott: 100%. It is because your thoughts become things. And I've seen it with myself I’ve seen it with people around me, if you've got a very negative, a lack thereof, limiting belief towards money, then that's all you're going to get. If you have, um, if you use certain language like oh I'm broke. I've got no money. I wish I had more. I'm sorry, you're just going to get more of it. Because that's what you put out there into the world. I believe in God. I know not everybody does. So I'll use the word universe just to- you know, so we’re covering everyone here.

Gemma Styles: Pretty universal.

Natalie Scott: Yeah, universal, it’s like, what you put out to the universe. If you keep putting out I'm bad with money. I have no money, I'm broke, I can't afford this, then you're only going to get that back because there's a lot of power, in our words, there’s a lot of power in how we speak. So that's why I always say that your money mindset is literally either going to make you or break you. And it's the reason why a lot of lottery winners, they lose their winnings over a span of under a year, because they've got a broke or poor money mindset. And if you give someone with that mindset money, they're only going to lose it. That's the reason why they can't hold on to their wealth. And when you look at footballers, young footballers that earn so much money on a weekly basis or monthly basis, and then they have an injury or something happens. And then they lose all their wealth because they didn't invest it wisely. They spent it on living for immediate gratification, and then they're left with nothing at the end. And that's why money management is so important across the board. And money mindset is important across the board. It doesn't matter how old you have, or how young you are, it applies to everybody.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, definitely. I think it makes me think of- so I saw a video that you posted the other day, which you know, you talk about, you know, putting things out to the universe. And I think I think it was a reel maybe? Bloody reels. But um, was to Ariana Grande, one of the songs from the album.

Natalie Scott: Like magic.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, that's the one! [Natalie laughs] Where she was like, you know, “I get everything I want coz I attract it.”

Natalie Scott: Yeah!

Gemma Styles: And it's one of those things and I feel like I keep seeing people talk more about this kind of thing now- it's like manifestation right?

Natalie Scott: Oh, yes. Yes.

Gemma Styles: Which, I have to say, I have not really read much about apart from people you know, maybe mentioning it in a caption or something. What's- What's the idea there?

Natalie Scott: You know what so again, with manifestation it's all about your thoughts are things, your thoughts become things, it’s literally that. So manifestation is where you like meditate on something and you bring it towards your life so it's more like you ask for something. You believe it's already yours, and then you receive it. So this is kind of like when it comes to money so for me I my ask for… actually I'll use an example cuz, I use this example cuz it happened to me. I wanted a particular car, right? Had no money, I had no business buying this car because I didn't have the money. But it’s something I’ve always wanted. So how I manifest, I'm visual. So I had a picture of this car on my vision board and I had it there for three years and I didn't understand why this car wasn't mine. I was like this manifestation stuff does not work. It's rubbish, it’s Lala, it’s Woohoo, I'm done with it. But then I couldn't get this car out of my head. I thought No, but I want this car so bad. So I said to my dad, Dad let's go to the showroom. I want to, I want to drive it. I want to test drive it. And I want you to video, video me as well. My dad’s like Natalie, you've got no money, you've got no business going to the car showroom. [both laugh] I was like Dad, you don't understand, I just need you to do this for me. Anyway, went to the car showroom. And I made sure that the car that I wanted to test drive was exact car I wanted, the exact colour, the exact specification. Drove it. My dad videoed me while I was driving it. And every night, I watched this video of me driving it. And I just kept putting out there that this car will be mine. I don't know how, but this car is going to be mine. And I’ll tell my friends, I'm going to get this car one day. And they're like, really? I just kept talking everyone's ear off. And then, within a year I got the car. And I don't know how. But I got it. And I got it with the exact specification I wanted, the exact trimming, everything and I got it. And I was like wow, I manifested that. And then my sister, it happened with her, she manifested the car that she really wanted. So it can definitely happen. And I think it's because I believed the car was already mine. And with our, we’ve got a drive. And we've got a drive enough for three cars. And there's a space there where I sold my old car. And the space was always empty. And I just kept imagining my car there, like my new car there. And now it's there. And it's like, wow, I did this. And that's what manifestation is. It's actually believing that you've got something before it actually comes to you. And once you've got that feeling, you know like endorphins that go off, like Oh my God, I've got that or I just had a piece of chocolate it tastes so nice. It's that same feeling. And you just hold it, you carry it with you. And I use this with my clients all the time, especially ones that may be in debt. I'm like, Okay, see your life without the debt. See that feeling that you're gonna get when you haven't got that anymore? Think of that feeling and carry it with you. And literally just work towards getting it. And again, I'm a visual person. So I always have a visual board anything that I want, I put it on a vision board and I get it. So it's just having that faith in yourself and believing that whatever you want you can get it like who's gonna stop you apart from yourself?

Gemma Styles: I do- I find that so fascinating. Because to me, I but I mean, I'm probably quite a cynical person anyway. But to me, I'm like but how? How does that work? [Natalie laughs] The only the only time I see people talking about it is when they’re like Oh yeah, I manifested that, it worked. Like, [laughing] people only ever talk about it and seem to be really happy with how it’s going… I mean Ariana’s clearly on board.

Natalie Scott: No, but it's crazy because sometimes you don't even know that you manifested it until you sit back because life moves really fast. It's only until you sit back and be like, actually I manifested it. For instance, last month, I kept manifesting that I want some publications behind my back I want to be published in something or I want to be featured on something, I want something credible like BBC News. And I remember on my Canva, when I'm designing my posts, there’s this breaking news that I haven’t even put out to the world, it's like a breaking news with a BBC reel. I just haven't put it out yet. I don't know why. It's not the right time. But I kept manifesting like Oh, BBC or ITV or something, and all your friends are like Oh I can imagine you on ITV or can imagine you talking about this or that, I was like yeah whatever. Anyway, I was on BBC Radio News last week, and I was just like- and at the time, I didn't think about it. It was only maybe a couple days later I was like, actually, I manifested this, I actually manifested that I wanted to do something with the BBC or ITV whichever one, and it happens. So sometimes it happens, you don't even realise until you sit back and be like, get your journal out and be like, actually, I did manifest that. So it's weird how some things can take very quick, some thing's happen very quickly. Like that happened in under a month, and some things will take very long, like the car that happened over a year. So manifesting, manifestation is very real.

Gemma Styles: Do you think it's kind of a very specific way… to simplify, kind of just like thinking more positively about things? Like you know, because your whole thing is, you know, get rid of your self- self limiting beliefs. So is manifestation just one way that you can do that?

Natalie Scott: Definitely. It's a really good way. It's just being positive, do you- Okay, if I flip it, if I flip it, say like, you wake up in the morning, and you're happy, right? Like, yep, got to start my day. And then something happens on your way to work, or you're on your way on your coffee run, something bad happens. It puts you in a bad mood for the rest of the day.

Gemma Styles: Yep.

Natalie Scott: But it's your job to take yourself out of that. If you've had a really good morning, and nothing's messed up your day. And then something happens. It's how you react to it that's going to affect you. So again, when you're positive, and you're happy- I don't know about you, but more great things come your way, when you smile at someone, that person has a smile back. But there's so much power that you have with yourself that you don't- you're not even realising. And that's why I feel like- I could be miserable, like the rest of the nation, or I could just be happy. Because I feel like we, you know, Brits- we can be miserable sometimes, like the weather, we don't get any sun. What’s there to be happy about?

Gemma Styles: We are known for it.

Natalie Scott: We're known for it. But I like to break the mould and break the cookie cutter [Gemma laughs] and be happy. And when people look at you were like, Why are you always happy? It's like, Well, why waste energy and be sad, if I'm going to use my energy, I’d rather use it and be happy and bring some sunshine in someone else's life. So I think just think positive. It's hard for people that aren't used to it. It's easy for me to talk like this, because I’ve been doing it and practising for a long time. But if you're listening right now, and you're having a bad day, just think about a memory or a moment that made you happy, and see how that changes how you feel for at least five minutes. It's like, oh, no worries in the world. So it's literally practising that. And keeping that positive thinking throughout the day. So that if anyone says anything, does anything, it doesn't change who you are, because you're- you're happy. I'm just a happy person, I try. [both laughing]

Gemma Styles: I think you do a great job of it!

Q&A

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Gemma Styles: Every week, my guest and I will be answering your questions. And the first one comes in from Georgia.

Possibly a niche question, but I'd love to hear tips on how to budget when you're self employed, when it's all a bit more sporadic, and you don't have the same regular income to plan each month.

Natalie Scott: Okay, what I would say firstly, hopefully, you've got some kind of cushion of money that can get you through a couple of months on your fixed outgoings, so like your rent, your mortgage, and electricity and stuff like that. So once you've got a cushion in place, we know that that stuff is covered. Going forward, what I would suggest to budget is my nice little tip that I always say, get your Highlighter Pen out girl, and look through what comes out on a regular basis and a sporadic basis. So regular basis could be your subscriptions. And sporadic can be your pick me ups of meals. Look through them and see what can stay and what can go and see if you can free up some money that way. Because I find that when you're freelancing- because I freelanced in the past as well. It's quite difficult because you're chasing invoices, you don't know when money is gonna come in. And it can be a lot to deal with. But what I would say is try to work towards building a cushion. Once you've got a cushion, you know that your fixed stuff that comes out is accounted for. And you don't have to worry about chasing money or chasing an invoice to pay for a roof over your head, for example. So that's the first thing you want to do. Once that is done, go through everything that comes out of your bank account and see if there's any way where you can tie up your payments, because you might get paid two, three times in a month on different dates. And you might have a payment, a large payment that comes out, see if you can actually contact that supplier and see if they could either split your payment or change the date. Because they need to understand that not everybody works a nine to five, and they need to be as flexible as you are with your money coming in. I think that's a very important thing to note. Because if you're you're freelancing, and you have a massive payment come in at the end of the month, but you get paid a week until the first of the month, it’s not going to work, which is why having a cushion is very important. But you haven't got that cushion, just get on the phone. I think a lot of us don't do this, but we need to just get on the phone and speak to our suppliers and see if there's a way that they can work with us. And I'm sure they'll be able to work with you on that.

Gemma Styles: That's a really good point. I think that's something that, like, quite often you just don't think about doing? And it's like, oh, well, that's a bill. So I have to pay it. They're in charge, I just have to pay them. Whereas actually, I mean, you do owe the money. That is true. But you can, you can ask to a certain extent, you know, they want you to pay them. So if you're asking, if you're saying you know, it's going to be a lot easier for me to pay you if I can pay you on this day, then you know, why wouldn't they say yes to that?

Natalie Scott: Yeah. 100%. Or see if they could split it. I mean, I don't know if they can, but that's the thing. We just, we assume that they can't do it. But we just need to ask them, and see what they say.

Gemma Styles: For sure. Next question. We've touched on this a little bit. But question from Madison, who says:

Growing up, I always heard and saw my mum complain about money and how she never has enough. As I got older, I realised from watching her, I carry the stress with me. How do you change your mentality on money? And how big of an impact do you think your parents have on the way you view money?

Natalie Scott: I'll answer the second question first. So your parents have a massive impact on how you view money because it's what you saw growing up, and it's what you mirror in your adulthood. To avoid this, I always say sit down, have a conversation with your parents. So in your case, your mum, ask you Mum why she was in that situation. Because a lot of times, we don't actually know what our parents went through as to why they were in that situation with money, we don't know. And therefore we just mirror it, what your mum went through, and what you're going through as an adult, are probably two different things. Your mum, I imagine might may have been- you mentioned your mother, so imagine she may have been a single parent household? So therefore she had you as a liability a responsibility, so therefore it made it a lot harder. You in your adult life, maybe someone who hasn't got kids yet, and has a lot of money for their disposable income. So as you can see, that’s two different situations. But if you’re mirroring the same situation as your mum, because of what your mum went through, it means that you need to sit down and talk about it. And then once you talk about it and your mom explains, well, I had you and I had all these other things to pay for and I didn't have a helping hand, you can actually didn't realise that Oh, okay, so me and my mum had completely different lives, and completely different situations. So I no longer need to mirror what my mum went through, because I'm in a completely different situation. And I think that's really important it’s that conversation with your parents to kind of understand why they did what they did. And then when you find out, you’re like, oh, I don't need to be doing this anymore. You kind of need to break the cycle.

Gemma Styles: That leads us quite nicely into the next question I've got, and it was a common theme of the questions this one. So this one's from Emily, and she says:

I grew up in quite a big family, so frivolous purchases didn't happen very often. Now that I'm on my own and making my own money, I’ve found that I feel so guilty buying things that make me happy, even though it's well within my means to do so. Is this common? And will it ever go away?

Natalie Scott: It is very, very common. It's so common. And the fact that you have that buyer's guilt is quite new. Because I know some people that are the complete opposite. They come from massive families, they weren't able to treat themselves and now they have their own money. They're treating themselves any time they can get they don’t have any problems with it like, Oh finally I can treat myself. But that guilt, it will go. But- I feel like the only way it will go is if we have these conversations. Because again, it's almost like therapy with your family. You’re just going through and just having a conversation and making them know that you know, I feel a bit down when I spend money on myself. And to be fair, all you probably need is for anyone in your family to be like babes. You're living your life, you're earning your own money, enjoy it. It's almost having that permission.

Gemma Styles: Yeah

Natalie Scott: And I think once you get that permission from your family, you'll be fine. I think that's probably the best way to kind of rid yourself of that burden that you're carrying.

Gemma Styles: Yeah, I guess like figure out where the guilt is coming from, like, Who are you feeling guilty towards and then see if you can see if you can fix it.

Natalie Scott: Just speak to them. You'll be surprised and you'll be like a weight off your shoulders. Like, Oh my god, I wish I did that sooner.

Gemma Styles: Last question is from Trisha who says:

I'm 40 years old and I do not have a savings or a 401K.

So Trisha is obviously in America,

I want to start saving money. How much should I start saving now in order to be okay in 25 years when I want to retire?

Natalie Scott: So Trisha, what I would say firstly, if you are working full time, then please get onto your 401K that's something that you should do as soon as you're working for anyone else. If you are self employed, however, start. It’s never too late to start. And that's another thing I wanna let you know, I know you probably get a lot of information telling you, you should start yesterday, you should have started sooner but you know what? Life happens. And you know, you're 40 but you still have some years in you anyway when it comes to working so just start, that’s the main thing I could say. As for percentages? It’s based on whatever you can afford to pay. You have to know what your bare minimum is. And once you've worked out your outgoings, your fixed and your variables, then you can obviously come up with a comfortable percentage that you're able to pay on. And if you're in a position where at the end of the month you have a bit of anything leftover, then chuck that into your 401K as well. I think what I just want to let you know is that it's never too late to start. And compound interest is real. So the sooner you get started, the more money you could actually end up taking home.

Gemma Styles: Remember, if you want to get in touch with us, or you've got any questions for future episodes, you can email me at goodinfluencepod@gmail.com.

recommendations

Gemma Styles: Before you go, I have three things I ask of every guest and that's if listeners want to learn more about what we've discussed today. Can you give us something to read something to listen to, and something to watch, please?

Natalie Scott: Lovely. So to read I’d love to recommend Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. That's an amazing read, because it kind of starts with the money mindset and why, you know, getting yourself out of a poor mentality into a rich mentality is the way to wealth basically. Another book that I quickly want to recommend is The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy. This is one of my favourite books. I read it five years ago and it actually propelled my investing journey. So that's a really good book. Listen, I listen to The Meaningful Money Podcast by Pete Matthews. He is amazing. He's worked in the insurance industry for years. And now he just gives really good solid advice across all boards when it comes to money. So he's amazing. And for watching one thing, I'd say YouTube, because there's so much information out there on YouTube for people that are willing to give you free advice and free information in regards to money, investing, pensions, you name it, it's out there. But um, yeah, so definitely check out YouTube and do, do your googles and see what you can find, and, um, if you're a bit sceptical about manifestations, and all that good stuff, I would recommend The Secret on Netflix, there is a book but for you visual learners out there, check out the movie, it's not that long, and it's really, really good. And if you want something a bit different, I really love The Wolf of Wall Street. Although you know that Mr. Belfort did a lot of bad things. It's just such a really clever watch, to show how one person's... what's the word I'm looking for? One person's determination to really get rich pays off- but then doesn't pay off, if you know what I mean. But it's a really good fun film in regards to investing and just money in general. Obviously, don't take the advice in the film. It's not good. [both laugh] But it's a great film, if you just want to kind of get your feet wet and kind of into their world get insight into their world.

Gemma Styles: I feel like yeah, that was a good one for you know, seeing someone who's really determined to make money, making money, but then also a complete cautionary tale on what not to do. [both laughing]

outro

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Gemma Styles: Thank you for listening to Good Influence. And thank you, Natalie, for joining me. If you've enjoyed the episode, please take a minute to subscribe to the podcast on Global Player or wherever you're listening. And if you're feeling generous rate and review as well. It's really appreciated and it helps others find the podcast. See you next week.