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Gemma Styles [00:00:02] Hello, I'm Gemma and welcome to another episode of Good Influence. This is the podcast where each week you and I meet a guest will help us pay attention to something we should know about as well as answer some of your questions. This week we're talking about nature, our emotional connection to animals, how the natural world links into other areas of our lives, and how to balance passion for the climate with protecting our mental health. So joining me this week is Cel Spellman. Cel is an actor and presenter. You may recognize his voice today from Radio One programs, including the Friday download and the official chart show. Cel is also an ambassador and longtime supporter of WWF, the World Wildlife Fund, and currently presents the nature focused podcast Call of the Wild dig into the threats our planet is facing, as well as, of course, what we can all do to help. So the natural world is something that you spend a lot of time talking about these days. And of course with your podcast, the rest of it is that's something you've always been interested in or is it something you came to later on? Kind of. How have you got so involved in this area of conversation?

Cel Spellman [00:01:24] Yeah, I think I think my passionate interest for the natural world and the environment as a whole May became a little bit later on. I think to begin with my earliest memories more, I had a massive love and affiliation with wildlife in particular. I've always been a big animal lover and I think that's probably kind of what sparked this interest and intrigue in the natural world, because obviously you learn about wildlife, then you learn about ecosystems and habitats, and then what comes on the other side of that is the destruction of these ecosystems and habitats. And then that feeling of, Oh gosh, this does not sound very good at all. What can I do to help? But yeah, when I was my earliest memories, when I was seven, I remember seeing a number on TV's for the Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society and it was like you could get an adoption because, you know, dolphin numbers were decreasing and whale numbers because of overfishing. And I remember like pestering my mom and dad to be like, I want to adopt a dolphin. I want to I want to make sure that there's one dolphin out there that I'm looking after. And I ended up with this dolphin called Lightnin. I think I had for like what to say, eight, nine years. And I think then through there, obviously as I got a little bit older, then you start learning the kind of around conservation and oh, that's an issue. I was just like, I just wanna look after a dolphin. Then I think my, my understanding grew what that meant. But I think then really the, the journey that really then I think what sparked kind of where I'm at now when it comes to conservation and speaking about the environment and the climate biodiversity crisis came around 1615 when when at school I don't know if you remember this because it's not called that anymore. Remember, it's called global warming.

Gemma Styles [00:03:12] Oh, okay. Well.

Cel Spellman [00:03:14] That old chestnut race, to be honest, I'm a bit like that needs to kind of come back, I think, because global warming sounds a lot more scary than climate change. It's like climate change, like, oh, that's not too bad. Whereas global warming just sounds a lot more abrasive, you know? I mean, but I remember, yeah, learning about that in school and I think had that feeling that I think a lot of people do, which is that real sense of feeling quite overwhelmed and struggling to comprehend the severity of it. And I realized a kind of a two ways to deal with that. It was either bury my head in the sand and not think about it and just try forget about it, or actually try and be like, okay, well, let me turn this on. This had let me turn it on its head and find out and try and do the things that I can do that make me feel better, but also feel like I'm doing my little bit. And I think just from there, I never expected it to end up taking on such a massive role in my life, but in the same breath, actually knowing how much I do genuinely care about it and love about it. It's one of my greatest, ironically, joys, in a way. And I'm yeah, I'm really proud that it's kind of become what it has for myself.

Gemma Styles [00:04:21] Yeah, that was amazing. I love that we started this conversation by talking about WDC. AC, I think it was because I remember the same thing so clearly, like my best friend Chloe, I remember her sponsoring like an orca. I think it was literally when we were probably about the same age. It's just brought so many memories flooding back.

Cel Spellman [00:04:43] You know, it's so funny, though, because like, I mean, they must have it every day marketing for them. They've done well because it was everywhere. The WDCS. Yes, wasn't they.

Gemma Styles [00:04:51] They did a number on eco conscious seven year olds back in the day. They really did.

Cel Spellman [00:04:57] That. I remember. You know, it was funny though, actually. There was used to get these updates, I think. Well, it began, I think one every three months. I think they soon realized that four year is quite a lot. So it ended up going to two one every six months and basically two updates came through and used to have like a little section about each dolphin that they'd kind of tagged them looking after. And lightning just wasn't in there. And I was, I remember being like, Angel is swimming up into line in my stomach. And so then I remember I actually got a letter saying, oh, you may have you know, we've not seen lightning for a bit. We're not too sure what's happened. But here's you can take another dolphins. And they gave me this dolphin called Sundance. And no joke. About a year later, there was like a big two page spread and basically lightning had returned, but with a family e like had this whole new pod. Yeah. So it was like this. So really actually the proof was in the pod and it was our o dolphin like lightning. And he went off, made little families come back and the numbers have gone up. So yeah, but for a year I was like, where is where is lightning? You know, where's this money going? But it was it was fine. It was all good. And yeah.

Gemma Styles [00:06:06] That was a rollercoaster. I was ready to say really fast.

Cel Spellman [00:06:09] Yeah.

Gemma Styles [00:06:10] So I mean, it kind of weirdly in a very specific way brings me to kind of. Do you think it being the connection to animals and not the emotional connection that we as people or, you know, so many people are animal lovers and we have that real emotional connection. Is that kind of how you started working with WWF and kind of how you've connected with the work that they do? And I feel like. Yeah. What are WWF up to at the moment if you can kind of have an update on like how does it all connect together?

Cel Spellman [00:06:46] I think I think it is, yeah. Because I do also remember I did have I think there's a lot of people. Did you know that WWF adoption package? Well, I remember I had an adoption wave to BW and I mean, for those of our age, we'll remember Jim Brown on count as a news agent. You always had the pandas that you could change and that would collect like those were iconic. And actually, if you go to their offices now, they've got a big display of about 100, 150 of them, because obviously they're not in circulation anymore. But every time they see them, it just brings me back to being seven years old. But I definitely think yeah, I think I think the wildlife and animals particularly gave me that initial emotional connection to it. But then what I have found, I think through, you know, my understanding and learning and actually just growing older is I've actually found that same emotional connection just for the natural world as a whole, you know, from, you know, the fungi and soil network to, you know, the plants that we see in abundance everywhere I've gone allotment with friends, you know, so growing your own food. And then you can take that bigger into, you know, our oceans and rivers. And I think every part of the environmental conversation I do not have the strong connection for, but absolutely the way it was, was through animals. And there's a great bit what Sir David Attenborough says it so well and I can't say it as well as in but in. Sure. You know, the whole thing, I think of trying to bring people on this journey to want to maybe do that bear it's it's not that strong just seeing people you can do this and can't do that. You know, I'm not an advocate for that at all. I don't know about you, but I would be like if someone told me to do so, even if I wanted to do it, I'd be like, Well, I'm not doing it now because you've told me to. Like he always says, the strongest and best thing you can do is help people find that emotional connection for themselves, however that may be. And that is far more powerful because once you have that, I think then that will take you on your own journey. You never know. Well, case in point. You never know where it's going to take you, I guess in a way. And then, yeah, we've WWF. I emailed them when I was 15, as I say, when I was feeling a little bit kind of doom and gloom and overwhelmed about global warming. Yeah. And I just said, look, I know you've got a lot of famous people and I'm I'm no, I'm not famous. You probably don't know who I am, but I was working on Children's BBC at the time and just said, you know, if there's a way I can support you in your work, maybe particularly with young people, I'd love to be able to help. And yeah, that start I started that this amazing more 12 years into the relationship. Now I'm very proud, Ambassador, and I think most amazing about WWF is it's funny, you know, they are perceived not as much anymore, but they were just a wildlife charity, which absolutely, first of all, must they are. That's what they set out to do. You know, they're the World Wildlife Fund. But obviously, as as science has progressed and our understanding of the problems that wildlife face, you realize that everything is intrinsically linked. So to actually be a wildlife charity, you always have to be, you know, kind of an activist, an environmentalist. And you had to be looking at the fossil fuel industry. You have to be looking at legislation. You have to be looking at holding businesses to account so they are more now what say actually, they've got this kind of whole 360 approach where, yes, they have this kind of foundation of wildlife. Absolutely. But now they they do a variety of stuff all around the world. And as I say, that's working with government businesses, that's working with tribes out in the Maasai Mara in Kenya to help them have a livelihood but work, you know, with with them to make sure that protecting the land and the wildlife as well, because they come into conflict, their work with the indigenous tribes in the Amazonian rainforest. So they kind of now do absolutely everything and anything and and rightly so, because I think you need you need these big institutions to really come to the forefront because we can try and hold governments to account as individuals, of course. But it's a lot more powerful when WWF are calling out companies or governments for their instruments. And, you know, I mean, and I think they've realized that they have that role to play as well now.

Gemma Styles [00:10:55] Yeah, absolutely. And that, you know, is something that I think we have started to talk a lot more about in these conversations is the idea that is big companies and corporations and governments who need to be making changes as well as the changes that we can all make ourselves.

Cel Spellman [00:11:10] Oh, Jimi, you've hit the nail on the head like and I was actually I was in a meeting before and and said that and it's something I push more and more now whenever I speak, as I struggle. Sometimes when businesses and governments put the onus on us, the individual, it's like, well, you need to do this and you need to do that. Now, don't get me wrong, we do all have a role to play. And I think, you know, the biggest thing I say to people is just be a little bit more thoughtful, be a bit more conscientious. Just think about your actions and. Maybe the consequences of them. But as far as you know, the big change we need to see, it is massive. You know, I can't stress enough. It's it's seismic and massive systemic change. We need to see that can't come from us. That is only going to come from legislation, from governments and from big businesses and corporations. So this idea of them going, it's on new, it's like, NAMI, listen, we're doing our bit, but it has to be on new. But unfortunately for them, you know, it's easy for them to blame us and not blame themselves. So you show, right? And I think it's important to, you know, to say to people like, you know, do your bit but don't think is it's all on us, isn't it has to come from these governments and the powers that be. But as we've seen, it's very rare that they bring about the change we need to see. You know what I mean?

Gemma Styles [00:12:26] Yeah, they still still don't they need us to keep showing up quite a bit more I think probably.

Cel Spellman [00:12:32] Yeah, I agree.

Gemma Styles [00:12:33] So when we talk about building the kind of, you know, the different ways that the systems interlock with all these issues and also getting those emotional connections. So I know on Call of the Wild where you're talking on the podcast about nature, but you talk about it in lots of different ways. I'm kind of through a lot of different topics, so I know you've done episodes on kind of health and wellbeing, for example, and things like our homes as well as travel. Do you think it's important to. Kind of weave all those different subjects in together. Does that help make people understand why it's important, or is that more about understanding different ways to make changes or kind of how are you approaching this topic? Breaking it down?

Cel Spellman [00:13:19] Yes, that's a great question. You know, actually, you I think it's probably a little bit of both in a way. I think, because, yeah, we we do all of those topics because it's trying to help people realize like this is this is a 360 thing. It's not just selective to a few areas of our lives. In fact, as I say, it's every element of our lives and our daily routines that are impacted by nature, and that also is impacting nature. So it is trying to be like, listen, we're going to have to cover the full spectrum here. And in the same breath, though, as well, because it is in every area of our lives, is then trying to cover all the bases and help people, you know, learn about the things that they can do and equip them with the knowledge and tools to try and make those small adjustments. And there's a I mean I mean, I've got it here. You can't see because you're listening. We're on Zoom. There's a thing called the Global Goals, which is kind of fronted by the United Nations. And this is a great example kind of of exactly what we're talking about, because this basically says, you know, if we're to really try and fix the planet and people, you can't just look at it as like what we need to fix, you know, the fossil fuel industry and maybe our water systems. You know, if I was to even read the top line of like all the different elements they've got to offer, you've got what you need to be looking at poverty as well as world hunger, as well as the right to education, as the right to health and wellbeing, as well as water and sanitation. It's everything's interlinked, do you know? I mean, we do live in one big ecosystem. So I think that's kind of why we had the approach with Call of the Wild is to go, look, there's so many areas of this conversation, let's just try and tackle and shine a light on each one in an overwhelming way, one step at a time. And I think if we can start thinking more, more in that 360 approach and realizing how many things are actually intrinsically linked, I think then we can start to really get on like the right track to, to see that big change because it's all well and good changing things. But, you know, if girls around the world don't have access to education like like Lutz do that's fundamentally a problem is all well and good can well the schools doing the right thing but what if not everyone's got access to schools so yeah it's funny when you do start to dig into it, everything has a knock on effect, just like it does in nature.

Gemma Styles [00:15:38] Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's a good point. Actually, the whole kind of ecosystem all locking into one. Yeah. We don't like to think. We don't like to think of ourselves as animals, really human beings, but we all are. And this is the kind of ecosystem we've created for ourselves and it is all linked together.

Cel Spellman [00:15:51] So true. So true in.

Gemma Styles [00:15:53] That way, though. And you just use the word overwhelming. It can get a bit that way sometimes, especially when you kind of. It's very difficult to look at one problem as one problem sometimes because it's so easy to link things together. Mm hmm. How do you think? So you've. Got a long background in. Broadcasting and kind of entertainment media. Do you think that that gives you a good kind of background in terms of. Because basically what I'm well, I'm trying to get to in a roundabout way is how do we keep having these conversations, but without switching people off? Because it's too overwhelming, because it can feel quite heavy. People who were already interested in climate are aware of these things. But I feel like it's quite easy when we're saying, you know, these are all linked together and everything needs to change. And this is all quite scary. It's probably quite easy for people to bury their heads in the sand. How do we stop that happening? How do you think we engage more people in these conversations?

Cel Spellman [00:17:01] Yeah. I mean, this is one of those like million dollar questions, I don't think.

Gemma Styles [00:17:06] Yes. It's not an easy question.

Cel Spellman [00:17:07] I just you know, and it's is you know, it's one that I do think about because this it's actually a massive part of the problem. And I think no one's nailed it yet because if we did, then I think we'd actually be, you know, we'd be saw it in a way. But I guess I kind of listen, this is a very overwhelming and bleak subject, and I personally felt that as well. And I can honestly say particularly I'm a very hopeful and optimistic person and I am very positive. And I think you have to be I can even say for me, at the end of last year after COP26, which was the massive climate change conference which took place in Glasgow, and I was there, it really it was one of the first times that even I myself was or I don't know if I can carry on with this. This really is and it's not looking or sounding great, but it's okay to feel that I'm there's a massive now even on the we did a on that mental health and wellbeing episode I did eco anxiety particularly in the generation but I was Jemma you know and mine bore you know these younger generations is a massive worry for them and I think you know, the first the first thing we have to go is like accept that this is a thing. But then like you say, how do we how do we combat that? And I think, you know, not getting too bogged down in the doom and gloom of it is important. You know, I'm always like, we need to present the problems and people need to know the facts, but that's not flippin overkill and be like, it's this, this and this. We can just generally accept to go, look, this is what's kind of happening. But then on the flip side of that, look at the solutions. And I can say for all the the negative stuff and the bad things out in the world, there are so many amazing people, businesses, NGOs, charities, individuals that are doing stuff that will blow your mind. I'm thinking, well, why is that not at the forefront of it? Yeah. And it's that was just not quite yet there yet. But I think realizing that as much as as much of it is doom and gloom, there's also a lot of light positivity and brightness because there's so many great things happening. And I think focus in on that a bit more is a great way to do it. But then I also think as well, you know, and it kind of comes back to that people and the powers that be, you know, and I mean, I'm battling with all the time because, you know, and I've got friends and even myself some of the changes that you're asking them to make, you know, the tough changes to make either financially or just, you know, time wise or energy wise. And understandably, people don't want to have to uproot and change their entire lives for something that they're not too sure about, which is why you achieve if the changes can be made at the top before even gets towards them, people can carry on living their lives and not worry about them having to, you know, massively change anything because it's already been done. But on the other side of that, to answer your question about how can we keep people involved, I think, again, it's that thing of, well, I still think at times people really haven't fully digested or realized, one, how the world is changing to, you know, how much it is impacting us and how much it's going to impact us. And like one of my one of the examples I use for that is the extreme weather that took place in Europe last year. And even here in the UK there was a tube station under water. I don't know if you remember that last year. I remember there was a tube.

Gemma Styles [00:20:34] Station, but yeah, isn't it? It's awful how quickly you forget, though, because as soon as you say that I do remember very vividly and kind of watching the news with it on, but then you're like, Oh yeah, I remember that was a thing. And it kind of, you know, there's so much else happening in the world.

Cel Spellman [00:20:46] Yeah, exactly. And they're all they all vie for our time and energy, rightly so. But also, I think that that's also made the problem where I think we very quickly become, you know, desensitized to these things. You know, it's like even now with another wildfire, everyone's like, well, we're used to wildfires now, but the the tube of the tube station under the war, for instance, you know, and I seen people tweet it and talk about it, yet still they couldn't make their friends like, oh, this is a bit smart. This is climate change. You know, this is the thing that we all think is a far off entity. It's like, no, it's here now, but people still haven't quite made that link. And I think if people start making that link, I think they would actually feel more compelled, feel whether they're feeling overwhelmed or not, to actually want to block Alright, maybe we do need to start, we should start making these changes and I think that's the other side of it, I think trying to. Make people realize the connection between, you know, the change in climate, the loss of nature, the biodiversity crisis and realize, you know, is that our doorstep now? I think at the moment is still there's still a bit of a distance in a way, if that makes sense.

Gemma Styles [00:21:54] Yeah, definitely it does make sense. I think you're right as well. And I think yeah, the point about, you know, it is a lot about media and the way that we are told about these issues as well as the way obviously people then go and seek out the information themselves. But we do get a lot of our information from news. And when those places maybe aren't connecting the dots for us, sometimes it's a lot more difficult to absorb the information.

Cel Spellman [00:22:18] And I think as well, you know, like and and same for me why does you know my mate who is is working, you know, every hour under the sun, you know, he's got his family to look after. And then the same time, maybe wants to go and enjoy a football match and have a little bit for him, whereas he got the time and energy to think, to worry about these things. And that's the other side of get ago. People don't and people have got a lot more stuff going on in their houses and at that front door that I'm into, then worry about these bigger things, which again is like, you know, people then shouldn't have to then take on this burden of, gosh, this changing climate and you know, the world is literally changing before our very eyes. Now they've got more stuff to be worrying about. So that's as well. I'm a big kind of thing of saying like, you know, let people worry about the things that that is that is in their little world, you know, I mean, rather than then trying to throw this big thing on them because actually, you know, there's there's people that paid a lot more money and have a lot more time and are in a lot more privileged position to worry about these things than most other people. And that's something I'm always keen to try and push, but I, I totally get, you know, this is an everyone problem, but not everyone also has the means to be able to actually tackle it. And that's, that's just sadly because the world that we live in is snow fault of their own or anyone else's.

Gemma Styles [00:23:33] Yeah, absolutely. I think I mean, it kind of it brings me round as well, I guess to that. There's the kind of idea that if you want to do anything about climate and kind of supporting nature, then it's all huge, huge, massive things. And like you said before, it feels like you kind of have to uproot your whole life and start living a completely different perfect life in order to have any impact. But I know a lot of what you talk about on the podcast, for example, then all these kind of positive changes that people can make. Would you like to give us some examples of maybe smaller things that don't feel so overwhelming? There are still changes that we can make day to day.

Cel Spellman [00:24:12] Yeah, I'd love to. And, and also as well I thing and again, I appreciate you having me on to have this conversation because even sometimes when I'm sorting out episodes and organizing episodes on the podcast, no people saying go like, Oh, I'm not too clued up on it. I'm don't really feel control speaking on it. And I'm like, The point of the podcast is to be like, Listen, no one knows everything. I maybe know a bit more just because, you know, I spend a lot more time in that space. But this conversation shouldn't alienate anyone, no matter who you are, how much you know, where you're from, what you believe and don't believe. And, you know, if the conversation is, I don't know anything, have that conversation. And I think for too long in this space, has it very much been like, well, you either know everything and can talk about it or if you don't, don't talk about it. I'm not not this needs to be creative and involve everyone. And and I get that because even sometimes I myself talk and I'm like, okay, chill out, you know, I mean, a little bit I'm sorry. But back to your back to those small changes, you know, instantly, very, very easily, you know, and I'm not one of these that pushes everyone needs to be weak, you know, because, you know, people can and should be able to enjoy whatever food they want to enjoy. But if you can cut down a little bit on your meat intake and adopt a little bit more of a plant based diet, even if that's for you, one meal a week, just go spend a day, be more plant based than if everyone will have a massive, massive ripple effect, a massive positive impact on on the climate, particularly when it comes to deforestation in the Amazon, because probably people don't realize is so much of the food that we eat here is directly linked to what's going on in Brazil. So if you can just incorporate a little bit more of a plant based diet, that's an amazing first thing you could do. And again, having conversations like this and actually speaking about it a bit more and maybe speaking to friends or parents about it, very easy thing to do even if the conversation is sold out in the news, does anyone know what that is? And then growing, our understanding is is vitally important and this all sounds so obvious, but reconnect with nature and everyone can do that. I think we all kind of turn to it a little bit, you know, in the last two years. And it's funny how kind of, you know, when everything went to poor, the first thing we all did is we almost went back to our roots. You know, everyone was like, Oh, let me go and spend my hour out in the park then. But I'm a big advocate for. Reconnecting with the natural world, because I think we're more disconnected than we ever have been. And even if, you know, I know even sometimes access to green space is a premium and is a privilege. But there are we are lucky. We have some we have some great parks all around the country. And I'm sure, you know, you're even if you're a little ten, 15, 20 minute stroll away. I think getting back into nature and spending time in it is a great thing you can do, because not only is it great for your physical wellbeing and your mental wellbeing, but I think naturally you start to appreciate it more and love it a bit more and then all of a sudden, you know, you might be walking around that park and if you see a bit of litter on the floor, you're going to pick it up and put it in the bin. That sounds so small, but the actual action and what that represents is so much bigger. So I think reconnecting with nature is something we can do if you want to take it a little step further. And these are probably be for the for the older listeners and there's a lot more coming out around this now. But our money now our money is one of our greatest, greatest tools it has when it comes to this. So just thinking about what you're buying and where you're buying it from is massive. I know everybody loves, you know, I mean, boo who is massive that they are. I cannot tell you as a company they are horrendous. And the environmental impact of the fast fashion industries is huge. So let's say, for instance, you're going out and you need to find, you know, you think an idea, a nice, nice top for a Friday night. Absolutely. Treat yourself. I'm here for it. But rather than maybe just getting that quick one on Boohoo, who can you maybe at some point in the week if you plan to a bit more just niche your local charity shop and get 1/2 home. It's a very simple change to make, but that massively will have a great impact because one, you know, you're not kind of buying into that throwaway culture too. If everyone started doing that and stopped buying from people who, you know, the bosses of people who would suddenly then be like, Well, why is no one coming to us anymore? Well, it's because, you know, people start believing, then you're starting to have an effect on how businesses are run. And the other thing on Monday is for those old enough who either have savings or pensions is and there's a great website called Make My Money Matter, which is so easy to do. You can go on there and and basically you can look at making sure that where your money is either saved or where your pensions are, it's being invested into green and green sources. So at the moment, people don't realize. But and I think it's something like if you move your pension to a green pension, I wish I had this fact right that I've made. Honestly, it's anywhere between that is 3 to 8 times more impactful than if you went for vegan. And all you're doing is just asking whoever where your money is is to make sure it's actually been put into, you know, renewable energy sources, not the fossil fuel industry. It's taken it out of investing in alcohol and cigarets and put in these new green solutions and that single handedly. That is the easiest and most powerful thing you can do. And then on a day to day, you know, there's so many little things, you know, do you need to make sure your dishwasher is going on on a full wash? You know, don't be rinsing it before you put it in the dishwasher, you know, making sure, you know, it's how that thing of electrics often only use the energy when you need to use it. Sounds small, but all those little things added up. Great. Are you using new reusable? What about, you know, can you maybe look to do a little bit more waste free shopping rather than just constantly. Shuman All this unnecessary packaging, then who knows where it ends up? All them tiny things as trivial and as small as they are. Actually, if we were all doing those little bits again, that's that's a massive impact it's having. So yeah, there are a few that that very I'd say I think just simple things we can be doing and actually you'll find it might feel a little bit, you know, for the first week, as with any new routine, you're like, okay, is this going to go after one or two weeks? You know, you suddenly find you're doing it without even thinking about it. And I do think, yes, those things there are I mean, you can tell me they don't feel too massive and not going to uproot and change your lifestyle, do you not? I mean.

Gemma Styles [00:30:48] Yeah, definitely not. And I think it's I do think it's really important to kind of come back to those examples as well, because as we say, we're kind of at this point in conversation where we're looking at a lot of the systemic changes that need to happen. And I think we're at that point where it's it's almost quite easy for some people to go, I'm exhausted by this. And now I'm looking at these systems and thinking, well, I'm not going to be able to change these things by myself because we need companies and governments and everything, as we've said, to change, which is true. But I think in that point of exhaustion, it is quite easy to go, well, it doesn't matter then what all these small things that I'm doing, like because it needs to be big changes. These things don't matter anymore. And actually I do think, as you say, the things can co-exist. So I think even, you know, coming back to a moment like this and thinking. Right. What other small things in my day could that be? It's actually quite a nice exercise. I've just enjoyed like sitting here listening to you talking about it because it does. It just makes you reexamine things again and it makes you think, No, I do do things every day that, you know, making it tougher and not even just for the way we think about it is a positive.

Cel Spellman [00:31:57] It's empowering. It really, really is. You know, and actually, you know, it's one of the great things we can do when, you know, you are feeling a bit down about it. Well, one thing that makes you feel better about is knowing that you're doing your little bit. And another point, like you say, of going alive at times and it comes in ebbs and flows where you go, well, what is the point and what can I do? If we all did think and adopt that mentality, then nothing's going to change and we might as well just downed tools and go, Do you know what, guys? Let's forget the next generations. Let's flip and send it for the next 50 years, you know, which would be we'd have a great time. But you know what? Where, where's then the idea and the thought for your fellow person and, you know, these these kids that are so amazing, you know, the all the Fridays for future, you know, movement that has come from young people, we've got to do it for them and and in the same breath as well. You know, as much as we do need this systemic and seismic change, I am the biggest believer in people power. And sometimes if I'm doing some talks and stuff, what I always go back to is I go if you look through history, actually the biggest changes that we've seen in society, whether that be, you know, through the women's right to vote, you know, that actually started where I'm from in Manchester. Emily Pankhurst, one woman started that movement, and before you knew it, they'd all come together and all of a sudden women got the right to vote. Bank people power Martin Luther King, do you know I mean, Rosa Parks didn't stand up on the bus, you know, I mean, you said now I'm going to sit down one small action, then report into this seismic change. People power, you know, Nelson Mandela, you know, the apartheid in South Africa, you know, one individual and suddenly create this wave of a movement, people power. So I think that's one of the thing. I try and bring Greta Thunberg in this instance. You know, she said, I'm not going to school on a Friday. I'm going to walk out and then look at that became for me, that's become one of actually the the greatest and most powerful things that's happened in the last three years when it comes to the climate movement. But again, that's people power. So don't underestimate the power of the individual. And I think is what made her, particularly by the media and by society, were made to think that we don't have much say or power in the world. But I'm telling you, history has shown us and I see it still today, we still do have all the power because without us they don't exist. And, you know, don't forget that we we do as an individual have so much that we can do. And I think if we all are reminded of that little bit more, who knows of of the potential of of where things can go and where we can take care.

Gemma Styles [00:34:40] Every week, my guest and I will be answering your questions on the first one comes in from Tristan. Now, we kind of touched on this question, but Tristan was asking when donating to charities, supporting our world, what does our money truly do? Because often it's something along the lines of donate to Save the Tigers or Save the rainforest, for example. But I know we're not just throwing money at tigers and saying they saved. I thought that was quite a funny question. So it's kind of around I mean, we did start chatting about this before, but I feel like the kind of the nitty gritty of the charity work, I suppose is, is what the questions about.

Cel Spellman [00:35:15] Yeah, and you know what though, Tristan, it's a great, great point. And from my understanding, as I say, I'm I'm probably not the best person to answer this, but I always see it in two ways, in a way, because you've got a lot of smaller grassroot charities that when you do donate to them, I mean, that is their lifeblood. You know, without the donations, they don't exist. So, for instance, I work with I mean, it's all charities for some smaller ones that I'm an ambassador for. And there's one called The Young People's Trust for the Environment, which is basically it's a team of three people. I mean, they're actually outreach is amazing, but they focus on providing resources for schools at primary and secondary level to help teachers and maybe afterschool clubs, you know, teach these lessons and help, you know, give challenges and things that they can bring to young people to help them connect and inspire them to get involved in the climate space. Now, donating to them, for instance, helps keep that going and will buy resource packs and will buy the lesson plans and the books that they can then send to schools. City of Trees is another small one where you donate into City of Trees basically goes to buy the equipment, the seeds, you know, maybe if they need some more equipped, you know, bigger machinery, so to speak, or go to that show with the smaller grassroots charity, you 100% know that it's actually just going to go into like literally getting the bits that the charities need now with someone like WWF. Which, again, you know, donations are the lifeblood of any charity. But for instance, I mean, if you're if you donate in to, say, a tiger, for instance, obviously it's not going to the tiger. But for instance, what it will be go into is helping fund, you know, the Rangers that will protect the the national park say that where maybe these this group of tigers live. It will help fund maybe technology such as like camera traps that help track and make sure they can track the tiger numbers and see how they move and learn more about their routines, which then will help them understand what can they be better doing to protect them to work with the Tigers themselves. It will also then be go into as well, you know, if there is if there was a particular campaign on the ground and say they're struggling a bit for funding to get the message out there, it can then go into that, too, to make sure that it's as powerful and as impactful it can be. So in in a bigger sense, it will help fund a more in a in a wide range of ways rather than just directly like, no, we put up these things that protects the tiger is actually more about that holistic view because for instance, you know, there's a great example in in Kenya, which is one of my favorite countries in the world. And obviously there is there is a there's a massive problem with most wildlife species numbers over there, but in particular, the African elephant, which is for me one of my favorite animals. And if you've got an elephant adoption pack and as I say, don't quote me on this, there'll be someone at WWF will know the ins and outs of it both. When you donate to protect an African gray elephant, you're funding the Rangers, you're funding the equipment that's needed, but then you're also funding the work that goes into working with the local community. Because part of the struggle with the elephants is, you know, that farmers, you know, from the Maasai obviously have got their land. And as a problem for them is elephants coming in and destroying all their crops, which is their livelihood for the year. So understandably, they're not the best friends of the elephant. But then through training, what WWF can do is go look. Well, actually, if you build a ring around your farm and bees nests on there, elephants hate bees. So that's a natural deterrent to keep them off the land. But then as well, you've also given these farmers another way of making income because they can sell the honey that the bees are producing. But to do that, that requires funds. So, you know, you may not necessarily donate it to literally protect the elephants. What you've done is you've actually helped the world around the elephant improve and make sure it's a safe, cohesive, sustainable environment for the people that are on the land, but also the elephant. So yeah, it goes into everything and anything, but I think grass roots, you can say it directly, will be like getting into the crux of it. You know, when you're dealing with things on a massive, massive scale, there's so many different elements to it that obviously legal requirement to show a law go into that basically.

Gemma Styles [00:39:39] Yeah love good little snapshot I mean I've just learned that elephants hate bees, for example. So that's that's why.

Cel Spellman [00:39:46] You learn something new every day.

Gemma Styles [00:39:50] Amazing. Thank you. Okay. Next question from Michelle, who says it can be very overwhelming to hear about all the changes that you can make to reduce your environmental footprint. A lot of people will tell you to just focus on one small thing at a time. But even with that, there are so many things and I often wonder, is this even making a difference? So I guess maybe if we, with Michelle's help, move that conversation on from kind of what we were talking about previously, it's kind of choosing which small things to do is kind of the question. If you feel like you can't do everything, where do you start?

Cel Spellman [00:40:25] Yeah, and I think actually that's a beautiful way to look at, you know, is you know, it's like it's like sometimes if you if you try to spend 20 different plays that all 20 of them are all going to end up falling. But if you just spend in chew place, you can maybe just or even just the one you know, you can keep that plate going. And I guess if you're going to choose one thing, find the thing that you that you care about. You know what I mean? That you think, all right, what is what is the one thing that or one area in my life that I would like to make a change? Because, you know, what might be for me saying to people, you know, maybe go a bit more plant based, you know, there might be someone who goes, I love my food that much. I don't want to do it. That's fine. All right, then, can you maybe look at your day to day travel? You know, you drive in 5 minutes around the corner, teammates, you know, where you drive in 5 minutes, thumbs up. Could you walk that? Could you maybe jump on the bike? So, you know, I think actually looking at the one thing that isn't going to maybe feel like it's going to help you change in, you know, a really part of an important part of your life that you love and find that one area. Gosh, I could maybe make a change in that and there will be some small adjustment you can do and start there. But I think that's such a great point. You know, there are so many great ideas of change you can do everywhere. But find find the thing that resonates with you and connects with you, you know, don't just do something. Customers told you to do it. It's better if it really comes from within. I think, yeah, start on that. And then I think naturally you'll find, you know, after we killed him that was pretty easy was the next thing I can do now maybe I could try this and then you go cash so that I may maybe I'm going to look at because I'm losing a lot of plastic bottles at the moment. Let me buy reusable. How often can I remember my reusable, washable or coffee? You know, just them tiny things step by step. And as I say, make sure it's what was easy and doable for you. Not what everyone's telling you is easy to do both you. Because what's easy to for someone is not easy and doable for someone else. So yeah, make sure it comes from you and only you know the answer to that.

Gemma Styles [00:42:16] Lovely. Thank you. And last question I have is from Molly, who says, I like that you talk about other things like mental health as well as discussing the environment. How do you look after your mental health when you spend a lot of time looking at worrying facts about the planet?

Cel Spellman [00:42:34] Great question. You know, my friend, one of my best mates, actually asked me that. And if I'm honest, I don't quite know. And I do. Yeah, I think because and listen, I've got to say as well, you know, and I think, you know, I've mentioned it before in our conversation, I do have my little moments where a dip, you know, and I think particularly, as I say, the most striking and obvious one to me recently was after cop. You know, I was really deflated and, you know, was was really in a funk, I guess, in a way. And the first thing I did was take a step back. You know, I have to go, right? I can't I'm going to I'm not going to consume anything. No one in this space do not man. I'm not going to be read in what I usually read, maybe sometimes after a few accounts and stuff. But you kind of almost if it really is getting too much and this I think comes in anything really put yourself first and do you first. And if that means me coming off my phone and maybe I have to email all the charities I work with and go, guys, you know, I want to help you, but you're just going to have to give me some space for a little bit. And they're all so understanding. They go, I do. And I think coming back to just focusing on what I need for myself is firstly the most important thing I do. But I think secondly as well, you know, I have found I'm quite naturally. Not to sound like an India. I do feel I'm quite a positive person and I don't deal quite well with negativity I never did in school. I think that's maybe sometimes why I'd always have an ironic way conflict, because the minute it comes up, it makes me uncomfortable. So I just don't like to I like to be aware of, you know, the stuff that is probably but I don't let it consume me. And I think for every it's like the balance of life being in the young, the pushing the pole for every sad and depressing story. There's one beautiful, uplifting, happy story. And if you can either choose to go, I'm going to focus on all the the bad stuff of folks or the uplifting stuff. But that's something I'll do as well. I think I said in that and in one of the episodes, you know, we do get bogged down, particularly because all the news do is talk about the negative stuff. I say to people, there was a there was a great while the inaugural Earthshot Prize Awards, which happened last year. And for those who don't know, in short, the Earthshot Prize, it's a ten year thing where people over, I think six months they can nominate people, organizations, companies that are coming up with solutions to help combat the climate biodiversity crisis. And then there's an awards ceremony at the end of the year. Final Four people are shortlisted, and then the winner of each prize gets an £1,000,000 to go into their idea and solution. If anyone is ever feeling down in the dumps about what's happening to the planet and that what people are doing to it while humans are doing it, to just go and look on the Earthshot Prize website and take a look at all the brilliant things and ideas and solutions are out there. Like, for instance, we are all about coral bleaching. There was these two guys in. Can't remember where they were, but they've basically come up. They've managed to manufacture or make basically synthetic coral reef. So they make coral reef in a way, but they can make it. So it basically is as natural as coral reef can be. It stays the exact same, you know, that the wildlife from the, you know, under our oceans would use it as a coral reef, but they've made it. So it's going to be more resilient to temperature rise because obviously the war is heating up quicker than land. So they're they're making these coral reef systems that are going to be able to withstand temperature rise, which means that actually then these habitats will still exist, even though the temperatures decrease an increase in sorry, amazing, you know, buoyancy. Who came up with, like this amazing ocean cleaner? You know, he puts it in the ocean. It's like a robot and they just should see it. It just goes up, just collected all the plastic that it comes across. And then someone has to go and clear out and then it sets off again.

Gemma Styles [00:46:30] So I actually I saw something similar to that in the Thames the other day. I was walking past. I was like, What? What is the what is that thing that was kind of in the river? And yeah, it was just like a little fenced in thing that said it was cleaning the river and we were like, What is that? And you could just see all of the, the stuff in the middle of it scooped out. So it's all very cool.

Cel Spellman [00:46:46] Stuff that they're a part in the porn that is a drop in the ocean, you know, of of things that are happening and not just businesses. You know I think Costa Rica are are like almost they've they've reforested like they lost I think 50% or something of their forest and they've actually brought it back quicker and faster and it's more resilient than it was before. You know, people actually thought that was impossible, you know, so, you know, go and find those solutions. But as I say, you know, I think I sometimes take myself away. I try and meditate. You know, I stretch some time. You know, getting out in nature also helps me and speaking to my mates, you know? And I think it's such an obvious thing to say when it comes to our mental health, but it's okay to not be okay. And if I'm in a funk or I'm feeling a bit, you know, down in the dumps, then I'll say it. And actually just speaking about it, you know, does help. And you actually kind of got put in perspective a bit. And yeah, I think that that's, that's one of the things I do. Yeah. So it's not easy and I'm not always so positive. As I say, it gets to me. But yeah, I try and try and do those little things I guess.

Gemma Styles [00:47:48] That's great. Thank you. Thank you. Far. It's not the easiest question all the time to kind of I mean, as someone who talks a lot about mental health, I do get that question all the time. You know, like what what do you do? And this is not always the easiest. Yeah, but I always find it a really valuable conversation anyway.

Cel Spellman [00:48:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so true. And I think actually just even just again, like, say conversion about 10 minutes hopefully will help people as well.

Gemma Styles [00:48:10] I think if you want to know about opportunities to send in questions for upcoming guests, then follow us on Instagram or Twitter at good influence GST and you can email me at good influence part at gmail.com before you go. I've got three things I ask every guest and that's if listeners want to find out more about what we've been talking about. Could you please recommend those? Something to read, something to listen to and something to watch?

Cel Spellman [00:48:36] Yes. Okay. Right now, this is this is classic me because I do struggle at times with my overthinking and sort of I struggle to make a decision. So to choose one thing I've actually maybe brought to to the table, if that's all right.

Gemma Styles [00:48:53] That is okay. You do what you want to do.

Cel Spellman [00:48:56] Thank you. Thank you. Because decision making is never my forte. And my friends will tell you that I'm right.

Gemma Styles [00:49:01] I was. Yeah, I got it.

Cel Spellman [00:49:03] Go on. So for something to read, I've bought two. And what. They're in two very different spaces. The first one and I will prefix with this is a tough read. Okay. I'm going to say it's a tough read is because it's basically present in the health of our planet and it doesn't take a scientist to know it's not in the healthiest states, but there's a report that is put out. I think it's even rarer to I think it's every two years it's called the IPCC report. You might have actually seen that or heard it bandied about, and I was trying to remember what IPCC stands for. David McCartin And basically it's a report that the world's scientists come together and put out collectively to say that they've all kind of, you know, they all agree with this research and basically say where the planet's health is, are. And the last one that came out in I mean, it's February-March time is it said it's a depressing rate, I'll be honest with you. But if you do really want to kind of really get a grasp and understand where the health of our planet is, are the struggles that we face and the areas in which we need to see vast improvements. That is basically a one stop shop. But as I say, it is a lot and even for me I to read in parts and I'm I have know most these things but I'd love to read a bit okay that's not made me feel very good. Let me go back onto the earth shall find some solutions. Yeah, but it's, it's is the thing I would say if you really want to know kind of how bad is it. That is it but. The other side of that. And I think because it's Mental Health Awareness Week when we're doing this interview, yeah, um, there's a great read that was put out between and it was WWF who also worked with mind, I believe, and it was called Thriving with Nature. And actually when I if when this goes out, be my socials, I'll send you the link or whatever so people can go to it.

Gemma Styles [00:50:58] It's like it's.

Cel Spellman [00:50:59] A free resource and it's basically a toolkit and how you can reconnect with nature. And not just that, the things that you can do in nature that are going to help improve your mental health and wellbeing. So it's kind of got loads of little ideas, loads of little tips and tricks of so many easy things that you can do that's going to help you reconnect with the natural world, but also are proven to actually help benefit and, you know, change your mental health for, for, for the better. And so that is, I think, you know, if the IPCC there is for those people that really want to get into the nitty gritty. But I think generally I think I'd encourage anyone to go and read the thrive in with nature resource. And I'm sure you'd read that or find something in there for you, even if it's one thing and be like, Do you know what? I'm going to go do that. And yeah, it's just a beautiful read and it just reminds, you know, just this, this thing that we know that is a part of us and and we are a part of it, you know, it just gives us so much more than we realize. And we can always turn to it because it will always be there. See, a thriving movement with nature would be my other one.

Gemma Styles [00:52:07] Gorgeous. Thank you. I'll definitely share that link as well. Yeah. When this episode comes out and yeah, that's that sounds like something I would definitely love to have a read off.

Cel Spellman [00:52:15] Is it that easy read as well, which is not short or anything. It's quite short, quite simple. But yeah, it's class. It really is great. So I'll get that across defo something to watch is again it was I mean of course the main man, the legend, my hero as I think he is most people. Sir David Attenborough, who turned 96, I believe, a couple of days ago from us doing this interview. There is a Netflix documentary about his life. It's called A Life on Our Planet. David Attenborough And that would be my recommendation because one, you just get to learn about this incredible man human being. And but within that, you know, he kind of he presents the transformation of our planet in only the way that Sir David Attenborough can. And yes, you're going to get some of the facts of where things are. But what's also in that film is he almost provides the framework for what we need to be doing to turn things around, because he says we can still do it. And if Sir David says we can still do it, we can still.

Gemma Styles [00:53:21] Believe.

Cel Spellman [00:53:22] It and do it. And it's just is it's a beautiful watch to learn about this man's life because he's he's seen everything, you know, from us in Man on the Moon to the birth of the Internet, to the birth of air travel. He is the eyes and ears of, you know, was coming into this this modern day world we live in, but can put it across in a way like no other. And it's it's an amazing watch. And you learn so much. And as I say, you'll also come away, I think, feeling quite hopeful and inspired. So David Attenborough, a life on our planet which can get on Netflix or I'm sure you know, you can find some of the places as well.

Gemma Styles [00:53:58] Perfect. Thank you.

Cel Spellman [00:54:00] And then something to listen to. Yeah, I've I've I've been really bold here, and I hope no one judges me for this.

Gemma Styles [00:54:07] I know what you're going to say, and I'm happy about you. Do it.

Cel Spellman [00:54:10] There is a great podcast out there, if I may say so. Myself, the host you can take or leave. No, I'm with you on that. Don't worry about the host. I feel the same about the host, but it's called Call of the Wild. I know it's my podcast and we're in the second series now and I'm incredibly proud of it. We we have such a diverse, amazing range of guests, from experts to non-experts to musicians, actors, artists. And I really made it out of this feeling that I wanted to make this conversation for everyone. And I also wanted to create a space where we actually don't focus on all the negatives. We kind of learn about, you know, the things happening, but what can we do to help and turn things around? And yeah, I think if you enjoy your podcast, which if you're listening to this, I'm sure you do.

Gemma Styles [00:55:04] And if so.

Cel Spellman [00:55:05] Then yeah, it's called it's called Call of the Wild. And that would be a that would be my recommendation.

Gemma Styles [00:55:12] Thank you for listening and thank you, Cel, for joining me. If you enjoyed the episode, I would love you to subscribe to the podcast on whichever platform you're using. If you've got a spare minute to leave us a rating and a review, your reviews make a big difference and help other people find the podcast. See you next week.