S03E05 Transcript: Onyinye Udokporo on Dyslexia

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Gemma Styles [00:00:02] Hello, I'm Gemma and welcome to another episode of Good Influence. This is the podcast where each week you and I meet a guest will help us pay attention to something we should know about as well as answer some of your questions. This week we're talking about dyslexia, how being diagnosed can be a privilege, the ways that schools and workplaces can accommodate neurodiversity and the upsides of dyslexic thinking. So joining me this week is Onyinye Udokporo. Onyinye is an education consultant author. And the CEO and founder of Enrich Learning, an educational platform and tuition centre which developed from the tutoring business she founded in her parents living room when she was just 12 years old. She was recently awarded the new Minority Achiever of the Year award at the Celebrating Neurodiversity Awards and spends some of her busy schedule using her own experiences of dyslexia to advocate for equity and inclusion in the workplace. We're here to talk about dyslexia, so I think it makes the most sense. If we start, could you tell us a bit about your personal experience of dyslexia?

Onyinye Udokporo [00:01:22] So I was diagnosed with dyslexia aged 11, which in the grand scheme of things for people in the dyslexic community is very young and it's a big privilege. I was only diagnosed with dyslexia because I went to a very good public school in West Sussex on scholarship. And so they noticed within the first three weeks of me starting secondary school that that was definitely something wrong. Oh wow. Yeah, which is really cool. And I'm again so fortunate that they were able to spot that issue or I like to call it learning difference, cause I don't like all the negative terminology around many differences. Difficulty challenge. The only other me name is that I was called because I was really believed because of it. But I, I showed symptoms of dyslexia from about the age of three, four years old. My mum would do my homework with me or my dad would encourage me to read to him at bedtime. And I just couldn't. And I have three brothers. One of them is 13 months younger than me, and he was always much better academically. I was a bright child and it was obvious that I had potential to do really well. But there was this missing piece asking me to spell was a nightmare. Asking me to read was a nightmare. And then what I started to do is just cram everything. And so whilst my parents knew there was an issue, they didn't know where to go for help. My primary school teachers spotted an issue, but I'm from a very deprived part of London. Nobody would give them the funding to do further investigation. So it was like, We're going to try as best as we can. We'll give her as much extra support as we can. My parents paid for a lot of private tuition and that that was my life really, until I was diagnosed at 11 years old.

Gemma Styles [00:03:22] Wow. So that's I mean. There's obviously something to be said about. The differences between because as soon as you went to a different school and in different areas like, you know, just slightly different situation, it was entirely different for you because you had. The the more kind of specialised support that you need is. What does that sort of look like? Because if it sounds I mean, it sounds like your primary school teachers were doing the very best that they could. But what kind of different support were you able to get once you actually had the diagnosis?

Onyinye Udokporo [00:03:56] So once I had the diagnosis, there were two main forms of support that I was giving that I think is different to what I had at primary school. At primary school, it was just like getting me to do more. And a lot of people with dyslexia or undiagnosed dyslexia will recognise what I'm saying, where everyone thinks that you just need to do more work, you just need to work harder. I was already getting up at 5:30 a.m. with my mother to do 61 spelling tests, which was actually spelling test because I was cramming every single word just so I could read properly. When I got to secondary school and the teachers realised, Oh, she's not reading properly, she writes well, but we don't really know how because that's a myth. I think it's a myth that people can't write. When I wrote a book last year, which comes out in September of this year. So.

Gemma Styles [00:04:47] You know.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:04:48] I forget that trend or myth. So they weren't really sure. It was just like, what card do more secondary school, what specialised kind of therapies and teaching support. So I worked with a qualified special educational needs coordinator and. Teacher and she sat with me and I learnt how to speed read, which is a different way of reading. I don't read whole words. I read the beginning of a word and my brain strangely finishes it off for me. And there's a new form of reading that's come out more recently called Bionic Reading, where the beginning of Have You See.

Gemma Styles [00:05:34] I actually saw something about this online the other day and I thought it was so fascinating because as far as I understand, that that's kind of how. Our brains read anyway, all like I've I've seen something online before about how, you know, we think we read the whole word, but we actually don't. But yeah, the bionic reading thing, I have no idea how it works. I just saw some bits of the word in bold, but it felt nice to read.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:05:59] Yeah. So essentially I was taught how to speed read using the bionic reading method. So I'm sure our listeners are going to be like, What's bionic reading? It is a form of reading where the words are printed out and the beginning of the word is involved or is stressed, maybe, maybe in italics or something. And your brain will focus on that beginning of the word and then finish the rest. And it just takes a lot of stress and pressure off the brain and the mind. But I was effectively doing that. I learnt how to do it with words and then I started doing it with sentences and it just made reading much more comfortable. Another support tool that I was given is when you are assessed for dyslexia, you're given a very long report, which is ironic because you can't read anyway. So that was interesting for my undiagnosed mother to try and read because she's got dyslexia as well as the two of us trying to work out what it was saying. But it was recommended that I try reading of different coloured paper and this is very common for people with diagnosed dyslexia. So I trialled green line up blue pink like a rose pink and then a very bright yellow one matching the blazer that I'm sure people see me and everywhere I always have yellow in an outfit I put. Yellow is one of the main colours of my business. Like it's a colour that not only brings me joy, but it's what has enabled me to be able to do what I'm doing today. Once you put a piece of work on yellow paper for me changes everything. The words Stop moving. I could read a fluent sentence. I remember tears and I'm not going to get emotional on this podcast. It's very emotional topic for me, but I remember tears falling onto the piece of paper the first time I read on yellow because I was able to read the sentence from beginning to end without stuttering, without getting cold sweats, because I used to find reading very, very nerve wracking, I'm sure, and I was able to do it correctly, which is like insane. So those are the support mechanisms. And then the school followed that up with something called neuro linguistic programming. So I had an NLP coach that's the cure for it for four years, and I had 1 to 1 mindfulness. And I also had counselling because there's a lot of trauma that comes with being an undiagnosed dyslexic. I was bullied really badly, I had self-confidence, I developed crippling anxiety, which then manifested and still manifested in the form of IBS, irritable bowel syndrome. So there was a lot going on and I was a teenager and being a teenager is hard.

Gemma Styles [00:08:43] It is.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:08:44] Yeah. And so I knew what linguistic programming is, is a form of therapy. Some people think it's like when you get hypnotised and you feel like that in the sessions, but it's how you like. They use like certain language patterns and the code we use, that's the language patterns to change the way you think and perceive your self. And, and the mental support I was given was crucial. I think that was almost more important than, you know, the yellow paper and the speed reading and learning how to write properly again. So yeah, that those were the support mechanisms and that's expensive. You know, I recognise that this level of support is a huge privilege. I don't take that for granted.

Gemma Styles [00:09:31] Yeah, I mean that was kind of going to be my next question. Like you're the first to say that that was a massive privilege for you. So how has that kind of affected the way that you've then developed your business? Because I know that you are very focussed on providing education to communities that might be more underserved because, you know, you've seen it on both sides almost.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:09:56] Well, the first thing for me is that I am always I'm almost hyper aware of whether a child or a young person is neurodivergent because I am neurodivergent myself. It's almost like you gravitate towards other neurodivergent people and I tend to work with people that would go a lifetime without knowing. And so. We obviously provide online tuition at enrich learning and we have our own amazing platform that we use and it's all been made neurodivergent at the core of it, making it much easier for young people, parents, children to use the platform. It also means that I've built up a network of educational psychologists and occupational therapists that I can just pick up the phone and say, Can can I get an assessment arranged for X child? But again, these things still come at an expense. I can provide the education side at a more affordable rate because that's what I set out to do you. But when you have a dyslexia assessment or any kind of neurodivergent assessment, these things take hours. The person, the therapist psychologist then has to go and spend hours writing up the report. So it's very expensive. And I think what we need to do is as a community and as a society, think of how we can make it more affordable.

Gemma Styles [00:11:21] Yeah, definitely. I mean, that makes a lot of sense, as you say, that if there are only certain people who are qualified to make those diagnoses, there's only so many of those people and it takes them so much time. I mean, yeah, it's one of those things where you understand why it costs money. But then that's where it comes to being more of, you know, like a postcode lottery, basically. So you said, you know, where you were from in north London. They didn't have the budget to pay for those specialists, whereas somewhere else might do.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:11:52] Exactly. And it this shouldn't be the case because. One in seven adults in the UK are neurodivergent like. That's a significant proportion of our society. 10% of the adult population in Britain are dyslexic. What I find interesting about these stats is that these are 10% of the people that have had the privilege to get diagnosed. I think the percentage is much higher actually.

Gemma Styles [00:12:23] Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me. I mean, I actually haven't spoken about this before publicly, but I. Half an ADHD diagnosis, which I only had quite recently, and I'm 31. And yeah, it's made a lot of things kind of make sense for me. So that, I mean, that's not exactly what was what we're talking about today. But just to kind of relate to what you were saying about, you know, it's does a lot of mental effects that can come about in terms of, you know, having quite low self-esteem because there's just parts of yourself that you haven't understood for a long time and not having that diagnosis. Can be quite harmful in and of itself, I think. So I get where you're coming from in that respect.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:13:12] I mean, first of all, I want to say and I might be a bit but I do want to say congratulations on getting your diagnosis regarding ADHD. I know it's not easy when you're first diagnosed of anything within the new A Divergence world, but it's something that I hope you grow to be really proud of. It will make life a lot easier, especially because new a divergence is so much harder to pick up in women. We mask so many things.

Gemma Styles [00:13:41] Definitely.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:13:42] And that's one of the things I really struggled with. I felt that there is a need to constantly mask who I am, especially because I am a black woman. And in the black community, Neurodivergent is almost a taboo. It's not spoken about. And as someone who is often working with parents, with children that are undiagnosed neurodivergent people, I am always having to kind of break the glass ceiling and have very difficult conversations. And parents, a lot of the time do not want to accept the fact that that child is neurodivergent. It's almost something that they are ashamed of. And that's just to do with a lack of education in the space and in the community. So, yeah, I think that for you, your recent diagnosis, I know we're not here to talk about that today, but it's going to open so many doors and I hope you feel free in who you are, because I started to feel very free in who I am after the age of 16. I, I was I became really comfortable with it is five years post diagnosis. I have five years of really, really excellent quality support. I was ready to take on the world even at 16 years old. In fact, I would say that it started or I started to get more comfortable with me and who I am from the age of 12, because that's when I started my business. Yeah. Which is crazy.

Gemma Styles [00:15:16] Well, this is the thing. So we are obviously now talking about your business. And I've kind of said in terms of the services that you're providing to other people. But for you as a dyslexic woman. Who runs that business and actually has been running running the business or an iteration of it since you were 12. How have you found the experience of being a business owner in that half of yourself, if you like? While being dyslexic.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:15:49] So. This is where I say this is the blessing side of dyslexia, because when it comes to the strategy, everybody else in the room will be like, there isn't a problem. And I will be like, Yes, there is, and here's the solution. So I was able to spot patterns. And then by spotting sets and patterns or spotting certain gaps, I was able to disrupt the industry. Even at the age of 12, I mean by 18 years old, I was a major stakeholder in the tuition market in North London. I was taking other big companies clients, which they didn't like very much by a lot. And it makes being creative. It just comes to me quite naturally. When you are starting a business, I'm sure that there will be listeners who are thinking of becoming entrepreneurs or starting that entrepreneurial journey. One of the blessings of being dyslexic is I can use the graphic design software, I can do the financial models, I can write the copies of the website, I can put the business plan together, I can organise my duties. I can have a billion tabs open in my brain at once. But then that's also where the pain of dyslexia comes, because one of the things that dyslexic people really struggle with is organisation. And that goes without saying. And again, if I hadn't had that really excellent quality one on one time with the special educational needs expert when I was at school, I would be a mess, total mess. I mean, when I started the school, I got lost for every lesson. I was forgetting my books. So if there's anyone listening, I stand in solidarity with you. I know how it is. I was leaving my pens everywhere. It would take me literally 10 minutes to pack up my school bag, so I would start packing up 10 minutes before the end of the lesson because I knew, like, I had this weird backpack and ritual. It takes me ages to leave anywhere. All my friends know this. So, you know, those were some of the challenges. And I'll try and put that into running a business when you're starting and you're doing everything by yourself, because that's the most cost effective thing to do. That's hard. You know, you do forget things and you get really overwhelmed. And so you have to have coping mechanisms to make sure that you don't fall off the wagon. And I think. Perhaps we should start talking about how neurodivergent people or dyslexic people manage in the workplace as an adult and you know, like how I was able to thrive and not just survive because I'm not sure if you've had the same thing with your ADHD. But there is an element of just survival, right?

Gemma Styles [00:18:42] Yeah. I mean. I don't know. I maybe I'll. I'll talk about this at some point, I'm sure, but I feel like. Yeah, but it's just it feels like a suddenly understanding a part of your brain that you didn't understand, why it just wasn't, why you couldn't just do what everybody else does. So. So there's definitely an element of that for me. I will read for the benefit of the tape. We're talking about neurodiversity and neurodivergent people now, which if you're not sure what that means. The Internet has informed me that covers the spectrum of autistic spectrum conditions ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia and dyscalculia, which I don't know if I pronounced that right or not, but yeah. So we're talking a lot about dyslexia today because that is your experience. But I know that you now advocate quite generally for kind of equity and inclusion of neurodivergent in the workplace. What does that look like for you in your work?

Onyinye Udokporo [00:19:48] So what are the basics of being dyslexic as I have what I have now called April, finally a career. So I'm an entrepreneur fast and my business is my baby because I'm additional saying that that makes me sound really weird. I do have a life outside of that promise. I'm also an author and a published one to grasp.

Gemma Styles [00:20:08] Solutions.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:20:10] Like you said in March. And I'm sure you guys can already hear the happiness in my voice because I was told that I would never be able to write company. So to have written a book which is being published by now, an award winning publishing house is amazing. I'm also a thought leader and create content for LinkedIn about my different thoughts about equity, diversity, inclusion, dyslexia. Neurodivergent. So let's talk a little bit about sleep and wellness too, because I think we are the most sleep deprived nation. And then I'm also a factual TV presenter, and I do lots of content creation and I have the privilege of talking to amazing people like you. Gemma So I'm involved in many different workplaces and my job takes me into kind of Start-Up entrepreneurial settings, right through to corporate, right through to media. And so what does neurodiversity kind of inclusion in the workplace look like? The first thing is awareness. I am so pleased that we are finally, finally talking about neurodiversity. I've got some fun facts for you.

Gemma Styles [00:21:22] Our love of fun fact hit me.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:21:26] The first one is that neurodiversity reached an all time high in the Google search engine with the term dyslexia being a breakout term. So it's increased in kind of search by 5,000%. Wow. Which is huge. Right. Like people are now starting to ask, what is it and why is it important? And in terms of neurodiversity in the workplace, we're seeing big organisations actually advocate for having neurodivergent people as part of their workforce. Now before that was something that was a hindrance and for some organisations that, you know, are taking a bit of time to jump on board and be more inclusive, it is still a hindrance, but for many organisations they want us now. So Jessie HQ said that they are looking for people with dyslexia because we've got crucial skills spotting patterns that other people often referred to as neurotypical people, that people that don't have a learning difference. They miss these things. So a dyslexic spy will be able to spot patterns that a not dyslexic spy would not be able to just because of how we're wired.

Gemma Styles [00:22:52] I feel like that could so easily be a TV show.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:22:55] Exactly. BBC, are you listening? I could happily present that. But yeah, I, I, I'm starting to finally see that. Not only are they including us or inviting us to the dinner party, they are having us at the table. And they're not just having us at the table. They're letting us lead from the front. That is so important when you're neurodivergent because you will have gone through your childhood, your teens, your early adult years, like just feeling. Bottom of the barrel. To be quite honest, it's likely that you've been horrendously bullied too, and that doesn't help. So to see that the workplace is now not just including us, but championing us and praising us, that's amazing.

Gemma Styles [00:23:45] That is great. And, I mean, I feel like. For me. I have known the term dyslexia, for example, for as long as I can remember. Really, I feel like it's one of those things you hear it talked about in primary school probably at some point, and then it only really comes into focus when you know, people are affected by it. So I think, as you're saying, where workplaces are kind of. And and with all the Google searches that the rest of us, you know, are putting more focus onto this so it doesn't have to be an outlier that we're only aware of what we know someone personally who struggles or has been diagnosed or all of the above. You know, I know one of the things that you talk about quite a lot is the role of technology and especially in in workplaces and how that can. Make things better for dyslexic people, for example, in their workplaces. What are the things that companies or jobs or, you know, education environments can be doing to be more inclusive and more equitable?

Onyinye Udokporo [00:24:58] So one of the first things is making sure that as a company, a business association, whatever a workplace wants to call itself, making sure that they are using technology that can be adapted to all technology with built in features that are a benefit to neurodivergent people. So obviously I work a lot for myself and I have various clients. I have so many devices. As I explained to you just before we started chatting. I have a Google Pixel six, which at the moment is my favourite device because on the notes setting I can change the colour of the notes page to yellow so I can write out my notes on that. And it's not.

Gemma Styles [00:25:51] Interesting.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:25:52] Right? It's not a nightmare. It's not flying all over the place. I can dictate to it really, really well. And I need to be careful not to say Google too much. Otherwise it's going to stop talking to us and stop interrupting this conversation. But I can dictate my messages. And as a dyslexic person, I cannot tell you what a blessing that is. It means I've got less mistakes in my emails. So I've got less people trying to correct me when they email me back. I'm not saying don't correct dyslexic people who spell incorrectly, but please be sensitive when you're doing it or just leave it alone. If I spelt online incorrectly, you got my vibe right? So just don't mention it again because that that's not helping me. That's making me even more self-conscious of the issue. I have a Chromebook and I wrote my book on a Chromebook specifically because of the built in speech reader or text reader rather. So when I was writing it, I love writing strangely. It's not something I hate and it's one of my core skills. But again, I've got a device that can read back to me what I've written, so it helps me pick up the mistakes I genuinely didn't see. That's one way in which a company can use tech is having the right devices. So give your employees a Google Pixel six phone. It's if they need to have a phone for work. I see companies have this all the time, this policy that everyone's got to have a weapon. Give them a pixel six because it's got all the features. So far as I've come across, I'm still on the hunt for something better if that exists. But right now it's been the best thing I've used. People who are neurotypical can learn something new about it, and they might like the fact that it's got a really good dictation feature so they can read out their message and it's typed. They might like the fact that they can change the colour of the notes, but the possibility of really making a difference to is the neurodivergent person. Get black laptops that are able to read people's work without it being too much of a technical challenge. Because I have this gift of being able to use tech really proficient. Me But not everybody is in that position. So yeah, those are just some of the things that people can do is making sure that the devices that are being used are devices that are actually going to be helpful for people from the Neurodivergent community.

Gemma Styles [00:28:26] Yeah. So it's I mean, it sounds like even aside from, you know, specific products or, you know, not everybody would have a work phone, for example. But it sounds like almost just taking the time to consider whether somebody might need that sort of thing is is kind of half the battle. I see men sort of actually making progress towards it because obviously workplaces are very different. So what you would need in each place wouldn't be exactly the same thing. But I guess, yeah, just in terms of actually turning our attention and realising that different people might have different needs for things that you might take for granted, like text messages.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:29:07] Exactly. And one of the things I really advocate for was running in learning, which is the business, is I actually also advocate for taking time away from tech. So other ways you can help neurodivergent people in the workplace is offering rest breaks. I cannot sit down for more than an hour and a half starts again at the bottom, like not because there's anything wrong, but it's just because I can't focus anymore. And I've got like what we call sometimes I call it dyslexia, brain fog. So I'll be reading something I genuinely, I just can't see. It's just a block of text, usually just sort of the black square effectively. And all it takes to kind of alleviate that is give me 5 minutes to take a walk around the office, for example. That's super helpful. But a lot of workplaces at the moment, you know, you've got the morning, your lunch break, and that's it. You may be able to stand up and make a cup of tea halfway through. Then that's fine. And the same thing goes for school and university, because I know that there'll be listeners who aren't quite at the workplace yet. I was very fortunate again. All to have a brilliant staff who arranged for me to have rest breaks in my exams. So I would often stand up. After an hour, it wasn't affecting my examination time. That time I was. I could take 5 to 10 minutes to just take a breather and then come back out. Come back and sit down and carry on. Same thing happened at university, which was like, super, super helpful and meant I could really thrive and be the best I can be. I said, these are just tips. You know, there are simple things that we can do, such as the rest breaks that make a huge difference to people. I have friends with ADHD that really need those rest breaks because if you think I get a bit fidgety for them, you know, it's not enough to just give them a fidget spinner. It's just not like they need to have a moment to let off some steam and then they can come back and really perform to the best of their ability.

Gemma Styles [00:31:24] Yeah, absolutely. So you spend a lot of time focussed on workplaces and helping to educate people that way, but you've also done work that's very different from that. For example, writing a book is very different to working in an office that might have to be more accessible. How was that experience?

Onyinye Udokporo [00:31:43] Well, the first thing is I had to really learn to get organised and my poor editor, I had to push so many deadlines. It was unreal. But. The amazing thing about being able to write a book. Is the confidence it gave me. Dyslexia is a learning difference that affects your reading, your writing, your spelling. Now, Gemma, what do you think you need to be able to do to write?

Gemma Styles [00:32:14] Well, I would have said read, write and spell.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:32:16] Exactly. So I started from a place of complete disbelief. Actually, I got the book deal through a DM on Instagram, so social media is one of my favourite things. I know that there's a lot that we need to work on when it comes to social media and in terms of making it a safer space, especially for women. But there are also some great things about it too. So I was spotted because for a short period of time I had a YouTube channel and I made a video called Dyslexia with me where I was enraged about the fact that the only examples I was given about being dyslexic was Jamie Oliver and Albert Einstein. And like Jamie Oliver, I've got nothing against the guy. Albert Einstein. He's dead. Oh, and another one was Richard Branson, which, as much as I am now a thriving entrepreneur, at the time, I couldn't see me in, like, a middle aged forward slash old white man. I'm a black woman, and there were no examples of that. And so being given the opportunity to write the book, from my perspective and what it's like in my community is the most empowering thing I've ever done. And I wrote it from a place of passion and purpose just to be able to make other people believe. And the thing about. Dyslexia for me and for any neurodivergent person who's listening to this today, I don't want them to listen to this and think I really want to be like an idiot. It's not about me. It's about you as the listener. Right now, I'm speaking to all the listeners directly. It's about making sure that you believe you can be the very best version of yourself. So for me, the best version of me was being able to write that book with no help. There was no ghost-writer. It was me. In the Waterloo, we work sometimes at 1 a.m. staring at Waterloo Bridge, which is a beautiful view at that time. I'm trying to get what I wanted to say about dyslexia in a way that my community would certainly understand it because I'm writing it for them and the wider world and neurotypicals to understand what it's like to live in our shoes. And the process of that was very painful. There were a lot of tears at times, but it was the most rewarding thing. And so if anyone today is dyslexic and is thinking of writing something, absolutely go for it. And my other tip is, remember that you write every day. If you tweet, if you post on Instagram, if you make a TikTok, if you send a WhatsApp message, all of those things require you to write. It doesn't matter what standard, you've at least done some form of writing. And so that should like give you a bit of encouragement to, you know, grow it, take it to the next stage, maybe turn it into a blog and go from there.

Gemma Styles [00:35:15] Every week, my guest and I will be answering your questions. The first one comes in from Lucy. Lucy says, I'm dyslexic, and people often tell me that I think creatively or differently because of my dyslexia. It's with good intention when they say, however, I can't help feel sometimes deflated, as I often struggle with the concept that things that make me different are just because I'm dyslexic, not because that's just who I am. Do you link your certain perks to your dyslexia or think of them as separate things about your personality? So you kind of hinted about this already, but I guess what Lewis is saying is, is it okay for people to always link those things?

Onyinye Udokporo [00:35:53] Thanks so much for your question, Lucy. She also very good one. I am not who I am just because of my dyslexia. I am who I am because I'm Onyinye Udokporo and I'm fantastic. And I make a point who I, I make a point of making people aware that my excellence and my greatness isn't just because of my dyslexia. It is partly a reason and I stamp out immediately. So, Lucy, if you're not comfortable with that, you will find a way with time to like let people know that you're great, not just in your creative and you think differently, not just because you are dyslexic, but because of other reasons. I'll give you an example using myself to help you kind of figure out how you can convey that message to others. I am great because. Then I see greatness and I see creativity and I see the world differently because I've had the privilege of being in very different situations. So my life started in a very underserved part of North London. My family and I, for a period of time, lived in a tiny flat with not much at all. And so I saw what it was like to really struggle and really sacrifice. And then using my academic ability as an undiagnosed dyslexic to at the time, dyslexia had nothing to do with it. I was able to, you know, get a great scholarship to a brilliant school in West Sussex, and I was able to see what privilege is like. And then I could connect the dots and see that actually the disparity we have in the country in terms of wealth is ridiculous. It's not okay. And I need to do something to give back to not just my community, but every other community. And I'm going to use education as a tool. My dyslexia helped me kind of split the gap, but that's not the only thing. My experiences in different environments and with different people comes before that, I think. So it's just kind of making people aware of your lived experience and your story. Your life experience is more than just the fact that you're dyslexic. And that's, I guess, the con of it being like the trending topic at the moment is that everything and everyone will point it back to that, but it doesn't have to be the only reason. You're fantastic.

Gemma Styles [00:38:19] Yeah, definitely. I couldn't agree more. Next question is from Vlada, who says, As a teacher of a foreign language, how can I facilitate learning for my adult students with dyslexia?

Onyinye Udokporo [00:38:31] This is a really good question and I am quite good at languages. My parents speak Igbo, which is a Nigerian language at home, and I do fairly well in French. I think I got a GCSE which is good I guess, and I take an interest in languages. One of the ways you can help your students with languages is using different forms of media when you're teaching them. So for me, what helped me when I was learning French at school was the French movies that we watched. Strangely, not the textbook, not reading the letter vocab lists and trying to cram all the vocab it was with watching the language being spoken and being used in every day with the subtitles on so I could see how it sounds, match it with what it looks like on the screen. That was one of the biggest ways. And I guess for an adult, that's a really good way for them to learn and watch a couple of good French films or whatever language you use, speak another way in which you can help your students when learning a language is allow for extra time. Really spend enough time focussing on making them aware of how a word sounds and how it looks. If you are a native English speaker and you are learning a different language. One of the things you'll quickly spot is that in other languages, almost nothing sounds like how it looks, which for a dyslexic person is a nightmare. So creating exercises that do that to you and like helping the person you're teaching recognise that they can learn the language every day. Using apps on a phone is really useful because I was speaking personally and I think a lot of other dyslexic people would agree little and often it's much better for us than sitting down and trying to do like 2 hours at a time. So yeah, I've given loads of advice that it's not information overload.

Gemma Styles [00:40:35] To know about. That was great. I mean, I didn't I threw a very specific question either. And you did excellently. I think it's a nice point, I think as well to. Speaking about dyslexia, I feel like it's it's one of those things where it is a spectrum. So there will be people who are more severely affected by dyslexia and people less it very much one of those things that can be very different. But I know like a friend of mine who I used to live with at uni, she was at uni and she was doing a dual language degree. She was doing French, which she'd spoken before at school and Russian. What she was starting to learn from the beginning and only found out when she got to university that she was dyslexic. And they then diagnosed her, which I always thought was just another one of those things that just goes to show. You know, you would think that doing like multiple languages at university level would be not something that would be particularly compatible with dyslexia. But like she did great. It's one of those things I think it's nice to to think about in the context of language learning. So I appreciate that question as well. Thank you.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:41:47] One amazing friend. You have genius.

Gemma Styles [00:41:50] Shades, bro, love. Last question is from Laura who says. Neurodivergent with ADHD, who works as an emergency doctor here? I had a late in life diagnosis. What are your attitudes on medicating to achieve brain states more like neurotypical people versus selecting careers or workplaces that allow for neurodiversity?

Onyinye Udokporo [00:42:16] This is a controversial question, but I love controversial things. So let's get into it. Thanks for the question. Personally. It's not that I don't like pharmaceutical things, but wellness is a big part of what I write about and talk about. And for me saying, Well, I wouldn't want to take any medication if I didn't have to. And this is where seeking medical professional advice is so important. If from a medical point of view, it makes sense for a neurodivergent person to take medication because it will make living for them easier and it will improve their wellness. Please take the medication because I am always cautious of saying that I personally don't like to take meds unless I have to. If a doctor, a qualified doctor said to me, Look, in India, it's getting to the point where your neurodivergent is affecting your quality of life and it will hugely benefit you and increase your quality of life if you take these tablets due to the side effects and I'm made aware of them and there are plans put in place to mitigate what the side effects might be, then please take it. On the flip side, if I don't have to take medication or the sole purpose of taking medication is to suppress who I am, because as far as I'm concerned, Neurodivergent is part of who I am. If it's got nothing to do with improving my quality of life, then I would much prefer to work in a place that caters to me, that wants me. Guys, I just talked about how they want more spies that are neurodivergent. I think being a spy would be pretty cool. I know that the world's most successful entrepreneurs are dyslexic. I know that some of the very best teachers are neurodivergent because they can pick up on other neurodivergent young people and children in the room and can provide them with not just the academic support, but also the mental, moral, emotional support that is so important. So if it's taking medication to suppress the things that would make me a brilliant citizen and enable me to give back to the world in a way that works best for me and for the world, then no. If it's going to improve my quality of life and I've sought medical advice that has given me guidance on how I'm going to take the medication. Absolutely. It's a no brainer. Please take it. So it really just depends on the situation that you're in. Yeah.

Gemma Styles [00:45:05] I mean, that was it was very much a question of, you know, what what do you think about this? Which which I like as well. And I think I would be on the same page as you, I think very much, you know, if it's going to be something that is going to benefit you as an individual and actually improve your quality of life, then great. If it's the idea of just trying to make everyone's brains the same for the sake of them being the same, then. Agreed. I would be completely against that. If you want to know about opportunities to send in questions for upcoming guests, then follow us on Instagram or Twitter at good influence D. S and you can email me at good influence pod at gmail.com. Before you go, I've got three things I ask every guest, and that's if listeners want to find out more about what we've been talking about today. Could you please recommend us? Something to read, something to listen to, and something to watch?

Onyinye Udokporo [00:45:58] Okay, so my first recommendation on what to read is obviously going to be my book called Dyslexia and Me. No one has meant the title until this point. So this is okay.

Gemma Styles [00:46:10] Exclusive. Clarkson Oh, I don't think we have an exclusive on the podcast before all of this.

Onyinye Udokporo [00:46:19] But aside from that, other things that people can read and a massive resource for me when I was starting my journey with dyslexia and even now is the British Dyslexia Association website, if you literally Google BDA, you'll find it. And on this website is resources for how to cope with dyslexia, information about what dyslexia is, how to support as a parent, support for teams, support for people at university. And if you're really into researching or writing about it, then there are brilliant reports on what dyslexia and or how dyslexia affects people. They did an excellent report on dyslexia and close it and how people with dyslexia really struggled because we we struggled to read already. I had a thousand emails that point. I just I couldn't. And so that's an excellent resource in terms of reading what to listen to dyslexia and neurodivergent, I would say is a an emerging. Thing like that people are only just talking about. Earlier in the podcast, I mentioned that it's been one of the breakthrough kind of search terms on Google. So, you know, people are only just discovering it, therefore people are only just making content. So if you are listening to this podcast, that's an excellent first step. But other people to listen to, if you are interested in your divergence more widely, is an amazing woman called Professor Amanda Covey. She is just like a walking encyclopaedia on all things neurodiversity, and she posts you give her a follow on Twitter because she posts these infographics about not just dyslexia, but different neurodivergent differences that people have and tips and tricks on how to like maximise your potential and thrive in this life and then what to watch. Oh, it's an interesting one. I have a friend. Her name is Ellie, and she goes by unmasked Ellie on Instagram and you could find her on LinkedIn as well. And she makes these brilliant short videos all about living with ADHD. So she was diagnosed as an adult quite recently, and her videos are just so insightful. And then I want this to sound ridiculous myself, but watch me because I'm always making content about this stuff. And I really hope that if I get a chance to talk to Gemma again, that I'll be able to give you even more recommendations because it won't just be an emerging topic, it will be something that society is really wised up to. And yeah, just get more involved with it.

Gemma Styles [00:49:28] Thank you for listening and thank you on and for joining me. If you enjoyed the episode, I'd love you to subscribe to the podcast on whichever platform you're using and if you've got an extra minute, you can leave a rating and a review as well. Your views make a big difference and help other people find the podcast. See you next week.